weathers, saarloss, stanton, majewski hammond etc

[redsupport]

all the same dross

[Razor Shines]

Given enough chances Santos could be just as bad.

[CTA513]

Originally Posted by Razor Shines

Given enough chances Santos could be just as bad.

Victor Santos is the best player ever to wear a baseball uniform.

[redsupport]

whats your alternative weathers or maybe stanton yeah they are proven major league pyromaniacs whose best performance was with reagan as president

[reds44]

Originally Posted by redsupport

whats your alternative weathers or maybe stanton yeah they are proven major league pyromaniacs whose best performance was with reagan as president

Victor Santos has never had a best perfomance. He's just had least horrible ones.

Victor Santos is no better (and probably worse) then Weathers, and made even Stanton.

[redsupport]

are you the oracle of delphi. If you are let me know how the stock market is going to do on Monday

[reds44]

Originally Posted by redsupport

are you the oracle of delphi. If you are let me know how the stock market is going to do on Monday

It doesn't take the oracle of delphi to know Victor Santos is a bad pitcher.

[RedRage]

Originally Posted by redsupport

are you the oracle of delphi. If you are let me know how the stock market is going to do on Monday

Judging by past trends it will go up.
Judging by Santos' past trends so will his ERA.

[flyer85]

Santos is basically Weathers 7-8 years ago. A failed starter he will likely turn into a decent middle reliever. Might as well go with the younger guys as opposed to the Sunshine Boys.

[Razor Shines]

Originally Posted by redsupport

are you the oracle of delphi. If you are let me know how the stock market is going to do on Monday

Well here's their career numbers:

Santos: ERA 5.07, WHIP 1.57, K/9 6.25

Saarloos: ERA 4.78, WHIP 1.50, K/9 6.28

Majewski: ERA 3.70, WHIP 1.45, K/9 5.33

Weathers: 4.35, 1.50, 6.52

Stanton: 3.84, 1.34, 7.28

Why doesn't Santos belong in that group? Maybe because his numbers are the worst? Granted the only reason Weathers and Stanton's numbers are better are because their best days are far behind them.

I don't see anyone claiming that theses guys are good, it's just that Santos isn't the answer for this pen either.

I'd rather see Coffey, Salmon and some other AAA guys at this point.

[flyer85]

Originally Posted by Razor Shines

Well here's their career numbers:

Santos: ERA 5.07, WHIP 1.57, K/9 6.25

Saarloos: ERA 4.78, WHIP 1.50, K/9 6.28

Majewski: ERA 3.70, WHIP 1.45, K/9 5.33

Weathers: 4.35, 1.50, 6.52

Stanton: 3.84, 1.34, 7.28

and what do they have in common?

They are middle relievers on their best day and should only pitch in low leverage situations. The problems is that when you have a pen full of those types somebody has to pitch the high leverage innings and at this point in their careers, Stanton and Weathers are really poor bets.

Santos still has an inflated ERA from pitching a lot of his innings a a starter.

[Marge'sMullet]

Originally Posted by Razor Shines

Well here's their career numbers:

Santos: ERA 5.07, WHIP 1.57, K/9 6.25

Saarloos: ERA 4.78, WHIP 1.50, K/9 6.28

Majewski: ERA 3.70, WHIP 1.45, K/9 5.33

Weathers: 4.35, 1.50, 6.52

Stanton: 3.84, 1.34, 7.28

Wow that a bad pen. It can't be this bad can it?

[Patrick Bateman]

Santos is more of the same. He could probably get his ERA in the 4.50 type of range as a reliever, but that's about it.

He has been a abelow average pitcher his entire career, and other than a string of fortunate luck he has been a below average reliever since joining the Reds IMO.

You are kidding yourself if you think Santos is the answer in stabilizing the back end of the bullpen.

[Guacarock]

Stabilizing the backend of the bullpen is really what's keeping us from being a stronger, contending team. We're simply losing too many late and close heartbreakers.

The stats tell the tale of the tape.

Our hurlers so far in 2007 have posted a cumulative 3.82 ERA, 10th best among all 30 teams. We have given up a stingy 75 walks, the lowest total for any squad. We have surrendered only 19 HRs, which is just amazing considering we play in a homerun haven and still have Eric Milton assigned to starting duties. The only NL squads that have allowed fewer home runs -- Los Angeles, San Diego and San Francisco -- play in caverns instead of band boxes.

So, why, with our overall pitching performance having improved so markedly from past years, are we still coming up short, posting a frustrating 13-15 record?

Beyond the usual flukes, injuries and statistical variations, you have to finger the bullpen. Our pitchers have a cumulative 3.48 ERA over the first 6 innings of play, good enough for 5th best among the 30 teams. But starting from the 7th inning on, the ERA mushrooms to 4.52, knocking us down to 22nd, meaning only 8 teams are doing worse.

Get even deeper into the games and we deteriorate further. The Reds now have collected five saves, same as the Nationals. Only the Yankees have fewer saves -- three.

The lessons to be drawn from this.

1. Probably wasn't a wise decision to enter the season without a designated closer.

2. It's likely asking too much to rely on Weathers and Stanton for high-pressure situations, either closing out games or setting up same. Their experience suggests they can be reliable middle relievers, but their lack of juice warrants keeping them out of the kitchen when it's the hottest.

3. If they can't do it, who can? Should we bring on the kids for tryouts, or else hope either Bray or Majewski can return to form and good health, or Guardado is bionic, or Coffey isn't too snakebit from being overly stretched and used as elastically as Scott Sullivan used to be?

Krivsky, for all his prowess elsewhere, hasn't succeeded yet in placing this last puzzle piece. And Narron, I suspect, is just too enamored with his quest to find interchangeable, one-size-fits-all players. I don't understand his reluctance to assign specific roles for each reliever, just as I can't make heads or cents out of his ever-evolving lineup cards.

Don't get me wrong. Overall, I see some signs of hope for the team's future, which is saying something considering how many years we have been churning, and toiling in the wilderness, and losing, losing, flat-out losing.

Still, having been spoiled by Franco, Dibble, Shaw, Charlton, Murphy, Granger and company, it's frustrating to see the bullpen become our Achilles heel. How could our base of strength become such a sore point and weakness so quickly?

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by Guacarock

3. If they can't do it, who can? Should we bring on the kids for tryouts, or else hope either Bray or Majewski can return to form and good health, or Guardado is bionic, or Coffey isn't too snakebit from being overly stretched and used as elastically as Scott Sullivan used to be?

Naw, we can't use the kids in pressure situations. They might walk guys and give up hits.