Lets all take a deep breath.

[harangatang]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Sorry it didn't work for you, and it is their site so they can do what they want, if you don't like it try somewhere else is the best I can suggest.

I've been waiting for someone to say that to me. Truthfully I think I'm more shocked about the way it was approached than anything. But I think that this may be more of a temporary thing but I could be wrong. I applied for reinstatement into the ORG so I hopefully I'll be back if I meet the criteria. In the meantime I'll be over at http://www.strike3forums.com/forums/cincinnati-reds/ discussing the Reds and not politics so I recommend anyone to so the same if anyone wants to do the same.

[Red Leader]

Originally Posted by harangatang

I've been waiting for someone to say that to me. Truthfully I think I'm more shocked about the way it was approached than anything. But I think that this may be more of a temporary thing but I could be wrong. I applied for reinstatement into the ORG so I hopefully I'll be back if I meet the criteria.

I understand your frustration, harangatang, really, I do. I have enjoyed reading your posts in the past and wish you luck in getting back into the ORG. Posts like this:

Oh really so those 2 guys have enough time to go through and select members of who they want or not, type up a vague letter, and answer people's questions but not notify the excluded members of the ORG? That sounds like alot of horse manure to me. It is their site but why play favorites with members who were already chosen by fellow posters to post in the ORG?

are not going to help your cause, though. Like I said, I understand you are upset, and I understand you want answers, but the reality is that this site is ran by two people. Two normal people, just like you and me. They have regular jobs. They have families. I'm amazed that they've got as much done in the short time they have AND have spent extra time on here to answer people's questions. I would hope that you, as well as other posters could show them some patience and give them some time to answer your questions. From what I've seen, they've tried to answer every question asked to them. They are good people and this "change" was a difficult thing for them to do. I believe RFS said it in another thread (maybe even in this one) that those two did not sit at home, drinking beer, flip a coin, and laugh when deciding who they were going to take ORG permission away from. Far from it. I'm sure it was gut wrenching for them to make some of the decisions they did, but they had to do it to carry out the vision of what they see this board becoming. Glad to hear that you've reapplied for entrance into ORG and I'd hope that you'd keep making quality posts on the SunDeck until you are allowed to return to posting in the ORG.

[harangatang]

Originally Posted by Red Leader

I understand your frustration, harangatang, really, I do. I have enjoyed reading your posts in the past and wish you luck in getting back into the ORG. Posts like this:

are not going to help your cause, though. Like I said, I understand you are upset, and I understand you want answers, but the reality is that this site is ran by two people. Two normal people, just like you and me. They have regular jobs. They have families. I'm amazed that they've got as much done in the short time they have AND have spent extra time on here to answer people's questions. I would hope that you, as well as other posters could show them some patience and give them some time to answer your questions. From what I've seen, they've tried to answer every question asked to them. They are good people and this "change" was a difficult thing for them to do. I believe RFS said it in another thread (maybe even in this one) that those two did not sit at home, drinking beer, flip a coin, and laugh when deciding who they were going to take ORG permission away from. Far from it. I'm sure it was gut wrenching for them to make some of the decisions they did, but they had to do it to carry out the vision of what they see this board becoming. Glad to hear that you've reapplied for entrance into ORG and I'd hope that you'd keep making quality posts on the SunDeck until you are allowed to return to posting in the ORG.

I understand what you are saying and thought the same thing when I wrote it. At the same time I took a look at the entire picture and not only what was done but the manner in which it occurred. I hope I am reinstated but I don't know what will happen. Sometimes I call things the way I see it and while it may not always be smart, in this situation no one else has said anything to make me think otherwise. If the manner in which this was done was better I think I would be fine with it. After all I just came on the board to post about the Reds last night to find an error message on the ORG and then find out about all of this.

[jimbo]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

Not sure if I'm one of the people you're referencing here, but one of the major frustrations of the stat-inclined group is that any time we back something up with statistics, some people take offense and call us arrogant and condescending. Also, a lot of times people honestly don't realize that they are coming across a certain way. While I wouldn't want to get in to an argument, sometimes a PM that says "hey, not sure if you meant to come across this way, but _________________" can go a long ways to nipping those sorts of problems in the bud.

I was not referring to you or any of the stat "geeks" (I mean that in a good way). Actually, I enjoy the posters who obviously take a good amount of time compiling stats to back their opinions. The posts I am referring to are the ones who suggest absoluteness in their opinions and contain an obvious condescending tone.

I think that often the assumed tone of a post is not the fault of the poster, but of the reader.

I don't know about often, but I'm sure that is the case some of the times. And I realize that some may not even realize how their opinions come across, but they should realize that just because they have a certain status here does not mean that they are right about everything.

If you're upset that you didn't make the cut, I think one of first questions to ask is how you handle yourself on the board during a disagreement with another poster. Do you continue the conversation constructively? Do you end/leave it when it's clear that you can't? Do you honestly consider that you might be wrong? Do you investigate the legitimacy of another poster's claim before disagreeing?

I normally always try to contain comments as "IMO" or "This is just my opinion," whenever I am in a disagreement or stating an opinion in my posts. I always try to consider that I could be wrong. The reason I am upset I "didn't make the cut" was that I played by the rules and had already proven myself. I can deal with not being a member of ORG, but it's the game thread issue that I will miss the most as I had just really began being involved in those within the past couple of weeks and had just recently got a small tv in my computer room to make following along easier.

I was only referring to a very small number of ORG members in my original posts. The vast majority there I have a lot of respect for and really enjoyed conversing with.

[wolfboy]

Originally Posted by jimbo

I was not referring to you or any of the stat "geeks" (I mean that in a good way). Actually, I enjoy the posters who obviously take a good amount of time compiling stats to back their opinions. The posts I am referring to are the ones who suggest absoluteness in their opinions and contain an obvious condescending tone.



I don't know about often, but I'm sure that is the case some of the times. And I realize that some may not even realize how their opinions come across, but they should realize that just because they have a certain status here does not mean that they are right about everything.



I normally always try to contain comments as "IMO" or "This is just my opinion," whenever I am in a disagreement or stating an opinion in my posts. I always try to consider that I could be wrong. The reason I am upset I "didn't make the cut" was that I played by the rules and had already proven myself. I can deal with not being a member of ORG, but it's the game thread issue that I will miss the most as I had just really began being involved in those within the past couple of weeks and had just recently got a small tv in my computer room to make following along easier.

I was only referring to a very small number of ORG members in my original posts. The vast majority there I have a lot of respect for and really enjoyed conversing with.

You may have commented on this before, but have you tried the chat system yet? With the changes on the board, it should be pretty popular going forward. If you give chat a chance over the next few weeks, you might find it just as enjoyable.

[jimbo]

Originally Posted by wolfboy

You may have commented on this before, but have you tried the chat system yet? With the changes on the board, it should be pretty popular going forward. If you give chat a chance over the next few weeks, you might find it just as enjoyable.

I remember giving it a try a while after I joined and remembered not liking it very much. I think I was having technical difficulties with it. I had just gotten used the game thread and liked the flow of it. But I may give the chat another try, thanks.

[wolfboy]

Originally Posted by jimbo

I remember giving it a try a while after I joined and remembered not liking it very much. I think I was having technical difficulties with it. I had just gotten used the game thread and liked the flow of it. But I may give the chat another try, thanks.

You aren't the first to note technical problems with chat. Perhaps it deserves its own thread.

[919191]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Redszone is a big ole board run by two guys who have lives and work 40 hours plus a week, the board doesn't make any jack at all. This is about as organized as it is ever going to get, it's a grassroots thing, not ESPN, not an extension of a big business interest, just two guys who own some software and pay the hosting bills and deal with knuckleheads 365 days a year.

They don't owe us crap, not me, not you not any of us. If they want to sell the domain tomorrow to a fan group of Man United zealots then they could and we'd all be posting on a soccer board tomorrow. What's done is done, no amount of zeros and ones or outrage will change that.

I think maybe this post should be a permanent fixture on the main page. It is as succinct an explanation as I have seen yet.

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by harangatang

Oh really so those 2 guys have enough time to go through and select members of who they want or not, type up a vague letter, and answer people's questions but not notify the excluded members of the ORG? That sounds like alot of horse manure to me. It is their site but why play favorites with members who were already chosen by fellow posters to post in the ORG?

Would you have honestly felt any different if the message in the "announcement" was e-mailed to you as opposed to popping up when you signed onto the forum for the first time? I imagine you'd still be upset about the changes regardless of how you were notified.

As to your second issue -- the short answer is that they can choose to do whatever they want since they own the site.

In addition I feel the need to also point out at this juncture that the rep system rewarded individual POSTS, not POSTERS. So, technically speaking, its incorrect to say a poster was chosen for ORG status under the old system -- rather, the old system merely had posts that were praised and enough of those (especially from the right, high rep power individuals) got one ORG access.

It sucks that some people got left out -- but I really believe everything will shake out the right way in the end. FWIW, everyone was really mad when the rep system went into place (and even madder when the "post restriction" was put into place for a few days prior to that), but it settled down and the status quo became quite acceptable for all involved.

Give it time before getting really mad.

[Boss-Hog]

Originally Posted by harangatang

Uh, Yes I do and I will be a li ttle more specific.
1. Why is it that none of us were notified of these changes by you or any other of the moderators? That is not answered in that section nor are there any instructions telling us how to find out where we were placed by you. The only way I found out was by going to the ORG and getting an error page.

It was posted in the form of an announcement that is available the top of every single forum. I know that you obviously feel differently, but I don't feel it's the responsibility of GIK and I to send a personal message to roughly 200 users to say 'More detail will be provided shortly, but you will no longer be able to post in the Old Red Guard'. As someone mentioned, would that really have made it less unpleasant for you or does your current unhappiness really stem from the fact that you (admittedly) don't like the changes?

Originally Posted by harangatang

2. The official reasoning for this change was inflation of membership yet many members newer than myself were let into the ORG. It seems this inflation would affect many newer members that have joined the board and been nominated to the ORG.

I don't disagree with that, but registration time, while a criteria used only for separating otherwise similar quality/respectful posters, was one of the last criteria we used in making our decision in those situations.

Originally Posted by harangatang

I can't lie about the fact that I'm pretty upset not only about the move but the way it was presented to us. It really made me feel like I was not wanted on Redszone any more and I feel like I was hand-picked by you and other mods to leave.

You've made it pretty clear how you feel, so I doubt this will be much consolation, but if we truly wanted you, and others, gone, it'd have been very easy for us to do and I wouldn't be sitting here responding to your questions/concerns/criticisms right now.

Originally Posted by harangatang

This supposed "inflation" sounds like nothing more than an excuse to single out posters that were chosen by fellow peers to be worthy of posting at the next level. It really is ashame because I came on the board last night wanting to discuss the Reds and I can't fully do that because essentially you told me I couldn't.

You may have convinced yourself that's the truth, but as one of two people who ultimately made this decision, it's not.