Lincecum opens up eyes at Giants camp

[OnBaseMachine]

I'm not as down on Stubbs as some, but he would have been my third or fourth option of the players still available at #8 last June. Tim Lincecum, Daniel Bard, and Billy Rowell in that order would have been my top three. Lincecum may be short but his stuff is incredible...think another Oswalt, albeit Lincecum doesn't quite have the control of Oswalt. I really think the Reds missed the boat on Lincecum.

Homer Bailey
Aaron Harang
Bronson Arroyo
Tim Lincecum
Johnny Cueto

That would have been an incredible rotation for the next five or six years.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by Cedric

I don't honestly care if he hits .240 with his plate discipline, defense, and speed.

Dunn, not exactly a beast in terms of making contact, is practically Tony Gwynn, Wade Boggs, and Brett Butler rolled into one compared to Stubbs. The Reds might as well have drafted a college basketball player if they were looking for an "athlete" minus the baseball skill set. How much longer odds do you want in a draft pick?

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Dunn, not exactly a beast in terms of making contact, is practically Tony Gwynn, Wade Boggs, and Brett Butler rolled into one compared to Stubbs. The Reds might as well have drafted a college basketball player if they were looking for an "athlete" minus the baseball skill set. How much longer odds do you want in a draft pick?

Baseball skills Drew Stubbs has:
Great Defense
Good Power
Good Plate Discipline
Good Speed and Ability to steal bases

Baseball Skills Drew Stubbs may not have:
Ability to hit for a high batting average.

Maybe I missed a thing or two, but he surely has more to him than "athlete"....

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Baseball skills Drew Stubbs has:
Great Defense
Good Power
Good Plate Discipline
Good Speed and Ability to steal bases

Baseball Skills Drew Stubbs may not have:
Ability to hit for a high batting average.

Maybe I missed a thing or two, but he surely has more to him than "athlete"....

Decent power.
He takes a bunch of pitches (not the same thing as good plate discipline)
Speed? What's that old saw about stealing first base?

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Decent power.
He takes a bunch of pitches (not the same thing as good plate discipline)
Speed? What's that old saw about stealing first base?

Yet he got on base 37% of the time last year. When your isolated discipline is .116, I would say its a little more than taking a bunch of pitches.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Yet he got on base 37% of the time last year. When your isolated discipline is .116, I would say its a little more than taking a bunch of pitches.

In the low minors? Come on. A .370 OBP with no contact threat is just taking pitches. That's all that is. There's no brilliant discrimination going on there on the part of Stubbs.

[dougdirt]

We will see soon enough FCB.... but his discipline in college was pretty good as well.

[Cedric]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Dunn, not exactly a beast in terms of making contact, is practically Tony Gwynn, Wade Boggs, and Brett Butler rolled into one compared to Stubbs. The Reds might as well have drafted a college basketball player if they were looking for an "athlete" minus the baseball skill set. How much longer odds do you want in a draft pick?

Have you ever seen the guy play? He's got plenty of baseball skills. How he doesn't have a baseball skill set to you is beyond me.

The guy is already a major league player with his defense and speed. His patience has been there his whole career also. If the guy manages to hit even .240 and get on base at a .350 clip and slg in the .400 we got something.

[Red Heeler]

Originally Posted by Cedric

The guy is already a major league player with his defense and speed. His patience has been there his whole career also. If the guy manages to hit even .240 and get on base at a .350 clip and slg in the .400 we got something.

Chris Denorfria???

I think that most would like more out of an upper half first rounder, though I would be pleased if Stubbs can put up those numbers in the majors in 2009.

[Cedric]

Originally Posted by Red Heeler

Chris Denorfria???

I think that most would like more out of an upper half first rounder, though I would be pleased if Stubbs can put up those numbers in the majors in 2009.

Weak draft.
Of course I'm not sold on Stubbs getting in the mid 800 ops range. If he does you got a great player at his position.

I probably wouldn't have drafted Stubbs, but I don't see why it's a terrible pick.

[dougdirt]

Weakest draft ever maybe....2000 may have something to argue, but last years draft was one of the weakest drafts in history.

[NC Reds]

I was advocating Lincecum on draft day. His size is a concern, but every assessment I heard was that he had filthy stuff. A risk worth taking to me.

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

How many guys like Stubbs, who struggle to make contact in the low minors, ever overcome that and turn in to good major leaguers. You can develop power. You can develop plate discipline. Contact doesn't seem to be something you develop -- especially when you already have the plate discipline.

Carlton Fisk say's hi

[Topcat]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

I'm not as down on Stubbs as some, but he would have been my third or fourth option of the players still available at #8 last June. Tim Lincecum, Daniel Bard, and Billy Rowell in that order would have been my top three. Lincecum may be short but his stuff is incredible...think another Oswalt, albeit Lincecum doesn't quite have the control of Oswalt. I really think the Reds missed the boat on Lincecum.

Homer Bailey
Aaron Harang
Bronson Arroyo
Tim Lincecum
Johnny Cueto

That would have been an incredible rotation for the next five or six years.

I liked that Bard kid also

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

We can joke about this and everything, but it's high time the people involved in voting to take Stubbs over Lincecum either get the axe or get severely ostracized; and if Krivsky cast the deciding vote for Stubbs, he should consider taking a year or two off from the draft and appointing someone who knows what the hell he's doing. What a trainwreck of a decision--but one this organization makes again and again and again and again....

The Stubbs pick has WK's fingerprints all over it. He will be Wayne's own personal Torii Hunter (with the potential of being a much worse hitter), patrolling CF in Cincy within a few years.

The guy preaches defense and pitching. The irony of it all is Junior will probably be in CF this season.