Tank the rest of this year??

[dunner13]

I know its a little early to give up but we are pretty far back. So if I was wayne I would use the rest of this year to prepare for next. Move Hatte and Conine and put Votto at first. Put Bailey in the rotation. Bring up Jay Bruce as quick as you can, maybe around the beginning of August. Try to trade Junior, weathers, and anyone over 32. So at the end of the year we have the worst record in baseball, which does mean we get the first draft pick, in which we should take the most polished and ready college pitcher who can hopefully be ready to help by the spring of 09. But even though we would get killed the rest of this year our young players would have a few months under there belt, which would hopefully help them to be ready to fully contribute next year. If we could clear out Griffeys salary and some others we would have some money to pick up some free agents who could help us go for it next year. I hate to give up already but I would rather lose now and win next year then try to win this year and not making the division and not being ready to win next year either.

[Degenerate39]

This division is up for anyone and I don't want to see Bruce in the majors in 2007. Isn't he only in AA? That's a big hell no for me. Keep Griffey. Wait a while longer before calling up Votto and Bailey.

[6-4-3]

I know its a little early to give up but we are pretty far back. So if I was wayne I would use the rest of this year to prepare for next. Move Hatte and Conine and put Votto at first. Put Bailey in the rotation. Bring up Jay Bruce as quick as you can, maybe around the beginning of August. Try to trade Junior, weathers, and anyone over 32. So at the end of the year we have the worst record in baseball, which does mean we get the first draft pick, in which we should take the most polished and ready college pitcher who can hopefully be ready to help by the spring of 09. But even though we would get killed the rest of this year our young players would have a few months under there belt, which would hopefully help them to be ready to fully contribute next year. If we could clear out Griffeys salary and some others we would have some money to pick up some free agents who could help us go for it next year. I hate to give up already but I would rather lose now and win next year then try to win this year and not making the division and not being ready to win next year either.

This makes very little sense at the present time. It's only June 2. The Reds are 22-34 the 2nd place Cards are 23-29, the Reds have won 4 of 5 and all teams can be leap frogged to get into 2nd place. If that happens, the Reds set sights on getting to .500 then the Brewers can be chased.

To make trades and go with a "youth movement" any team in baseball must wait until July. No team is going to be willing to sell of key young prospects at June 2. You must wait until mid-July for teams to accurately assess their positions in the playoff race.

Jay Bruce is playing in high-A Sarasota right now, he'll soon be up to AA Chatanooga, no way he'll be ready to be in the bigs by the end of the season. If all goes well he'll start next year in AAA Louisville, and get a vast amount of spring training AB's next season.

I wouldn't trade JR. unless the deal knocked me on the floor. He is approaching 600 Home Runs, it would be special for him to hit #400, 500, 600 in a Reds uniform. Also remember JR. must approve any trade that involves him. He isn't making a ridiculous amount of money (as far as the salary argument goes) and money will be / can be freed up in other manners. IE: Milton off the books next season, possibly looking into moving Dunn.

[bradmu]

Originally Posted by dunner13

I know its a little early to give up but we are pretty far back. So if I was wayne I would use the rest of this year to prepare for next. Move Hatte and Conine and put Votto at first. Put Bailey in the rotation. Bring up Jay Bruce as quick as you can, maybe around the beginning of August. Try to trade Junior, weathers, and anyone over 32. So at the end of the year we have the worst record in baseball, which does mean we get the first draft pick, in which we should take the most polished and ready college pitcher who can hopefully be ready to help by the spring of 09. But even though we would get killed the rest of this year our young players would have a few months under there belt, which would hopefully help them to be ready to fully contribute next year. If we could clear out Griffeys salary and some others we would have some money to pick up some free agents who could help us go for it next year. I hate to give up already but I would rather lose now and win next year then try to win this year and not making the division and not being ready to win next year either.

Guess we can chalk you up as being one who wants to do drastic things. When the Trade Deadline rolls around, I wouldn't be surprised to see weathers and Conine/Hatte Dealt...but you can't unload the entire team and bring up young prospects??? Votto will be up, and the way Bailey is going he'll be here too. but Bruce could be a 2008 september call up perhaps.

And fo the MLB Draft? Its not like the NBA or NFL where the top few picks are nearly can't miss stars. MLB draft is almost a crapshoot because these guys are 2-3 years away from being on the big league team usually. Here's a list of the #1 overall picks of the last 10 drafts....Only a few of these guys are really big namers...

2006 Luke Hochevar, RHP Kansas City
2005 Justin Upton, SS Arizona
2004 Matthew Bush, SS San Diego
2003 Delmon Young, RF Tampa Bay
2002 Bryan Bullington, RHP Pittsburgh
2001 Joe Mauer, c Minnesota
2000 Adrian Gonzalez, 1b Florida
1999 Josh Hamilton, of Tampa Bay
1998 Pat Burrell, inf Philadelphia
1997 Matt Anderson, p Detroit

[durl]

I believe it's too soon to write the season off. This IS the NL Central, after all.

[kbrake]

Yeah if everything goes perfect the Reds could come back and win the division and be swept in the first round by whoever they play.

Last year the Reds had a choice at the deadline, go for it in a weak division or make youself stronger for years to come. The decision last year was a disaster. Playoffs? Missed. Chance to deal guys who had more value last season then they will this season, Weathers, Hatteberg, Aurilia, etc. Missed.

The worst thing the Reds could do this season is think they can make a run at it because the division is weak. The ultimate goal should be to build a team that can be good for years to come. Not a team that can sneak into the playoffs for one year and get a beat down in 3 quick games. Wayne, please dont rush things. Trade everything you can this year and get younger and better at the same time.

[reds44]

Bruce is still in High A ball. I don't see him having any chance of reaching the majors this year, and he shouldn't. Late 2008 would be my target date for him.

I don't think I'd consider bringing Votto and Homer up as "tanking" the season. However, you don't throw seasons in baseball especially in June. The MLB draft doesn't net you an immediate impact like the NFL/NBA draft does. The Reds will probably end up with a high pick and get a great prospect as it is.

[reds44]

Originally Posted by kbrake

Yeah if everything goes perfect the Reds could come back and win the division and be swept in the first round by whoever they play.

The worst thing the Reds could do this season is think they can make a run at it because the division is weak.

Tell that to the 2006 St. Louis Cardinals.

[bradmu]

Originally Posted by kbrake

Yeah if everything goes perfect the Reds could come back and win the division and be swept in the first round by whoever they play.

To be fair, the team that beat them out for that final playoff spot by a few games won the World Series.

[ChatterRed]

Give it 'til the trading deadline before you do something dumb.

This division is up for grabs, sort of.

As long as Griffey is healthy, I enjoy his play. It's his injuries during his Reds career that have been irritating.

I think Dunn is the most likely to be traded if it comes down to that. And maybe a few other role players that can help other teams like Conine and Hatteberg.

It will all work itself out in the end. If this team is sucking come late July, a moderate fire sale will happen and the minor leaguers will be up showing us what they can do.

[kbrake]

The Cards had been in the postseason for several years before last year. On top of that the 06 Cards were a much more complete team than the 07 Reds. If you guys want to keep chasing it every year thats fine. Personally, I have had enough of trying that way. I would like to see a team that competes every year be built. It is possible to get younger and better at the same time. Just not sure Wayne is the guy to trust doing that.

[roby]

Originally Posted by reds44

Tell that to the 2006 St. Louis Cardinals.

I was going to say the exact same thing reds44. Bringing up Votto and Bailey would not be "tanking the season" at all. In fact, if they do as well as I think they will, they may be a little improvement. Votto is going to be a monster hitter with good speed, and Homer is pitching lights out. He will be at least as good as Belisle right away (and that's no slap at Belisile because I like him). Getting younger and unloading a couple of the old timers (not named Weathers) would be an improvement. I still think that Livingstone got messed over with a demotion after pitching as well as he did last night. I'm all for bringing up McBeth, but at the expense of Stanton or Santos, not Livingstone... especially when he could pitch again Saturday, or give Arroyo a recovery week.