Trade Joey Votto?

[DannyB]

Originally Posted by forfreelin04

They have Bruce, Votto, Jr. Dunn and Hamilton. Too many lefties. The Reds record versus lefties is a atriocious because no one this side of B Phil has had their way with lefties. I think Dunn will be gone (that day I will be dancing in the streets... just a personal preference) I would like to see the Reds deal Dunn, Votto, Hatteburg, Conine, Weathers, Stanton, Loshe, Freel and Valentin in return for solid prospects and maybe a few spare parts. Use the freed up money to sign a free agent right handed first baseman with some serious pop. Thus next year lineup looks like this assuming Bruce arrives.(big if) Not to mention, theres the chance of getting some other prospects via trade for a bench or possible starting role depending on the return.

CF Hamilton
3b EDe
CF Griffey
1b FA
RF Bruce
2B Phillips
SS Gonzo
C Ross

Did you ever think they are so bad against leftys because of the players that get the starts?
Freel? Hopper? Ross? Castro? They just dont hit.

[DannyB]

Originally Posted by degenerate10

Why would they trade Votto when they have two old guys at first base? I think Hatte and Conine's contracts are up after this year (Not sure though). Keep the young guys trade the old.

I think Conine got a 2yr deal. I didnt care for it at first but now I think he could be a good right handed bat off the bench.

[REDblooded]

Has trading Votto to land Salty crossed anybody elses mind?

[texasdave]

Why can't they try Bruce in center field?

Certainly Jay Bruce in CF is an option. But that simply pushes Josh Hamilton to a corner outfield spot and the Reds are in the same position as before.

In my opinion Bruce won't be up this year or maybe through most of next year.

Going into the 2007 season that would have been a pretty safe assumption, but I don't see why they would push Bruce up to Louisville so quickly only to have him spend most of 2008 in AAA. If he continues to hit as well as he has to date in his career why keep him down on the farm?

If were going to trade Griffey or Dunn why not trade Griffey? He's the older of the two hes the bigger name.

That is a possibility. I am just not sure how much KG brings in return due both to his age and his history of injuries. And just how many teams Junior would agree to go to? The Reds leverage does not seem to be as high in any potential trade of Griffey.

[cacollinsmba]

Originally Posted by DannyB

Did you ever think they are so bad against leftys because of the players that get the starts?
Freel? Hopper? Ross? Castro? They just dont hit.

A great point. I get tired of hearing the "too many lefties" argument. Put the best players in, period.

I might add that, considering that GABP was built for a certain left handed hitter, this team might as well focus on building a team that is well suited for the stadium they play in, not one that looks nice on paper. As such, I see no reason to dump Dunn in order to pick up a right hander. Dunn has his faults but he will not be easily replaced.

[Degenerate39]

Originally Posted by texasdave

That is a possibility. I am just not sure how much KG brings in return due both to his age and his history of injuries. And just how many teams Junior would agree to go to? The Reds leverage does not seem to be as high in any potential trade of Griffey.

They probably wouldn't get much for Junior but I am totally against trading a guy that's still in his 20's and gets 40s a year and he's relatively cheap for a power hitter.

[AmarilloRed]

Originally Posted by texasdave

Even if you trade Hatteberg you will still have four players (Griffey, Dunn, Votto and Bruce) for three positions (LF, RF and 1B). Most observers feel Votto is ready, and IMO Bruce is not too far behind. Do you then sit one on the bench? That seems a waste of talent. A trade is the likeliest solution. The names are interchangeable but the basic question becomes this: As the Reds move into 2008 and beyond do you like having Adam Dunn and the return on a trade of Votto; or do you prefer Joey Votto and the return on a trade of Dunn. Will another club give you more for six years control of the 'potential' that Votto brings, or, quite possibly, 2 months of the 'known value' that Dunn brings? Keep in mind that moving Dunn will give the team some payroll flexibility. And payflex is nice. But after watching this team over the years it appears to me that payflex is a tease. It holds more promise than it delivers. How many big-time free agents have the Reds acquired over the years? Wasn't the Kearns-Lopez trade supposed to give Cincinnati some payflex this past winter? How did that work out? Maybe that is the fault of the GM and maybe not. To me the bottom line is that Adam Dunn is young enough and proven enough that the Reds just may want to hold on to him. And if a trade of Joey Votto were to deliver more than a trade of Adam Dunn, that might be the way to go.

I believe Bruce will be Griffey's heir in right, so Bruce will take over in right about the time Griffey's contract runs out.

[forfreelin04]

Originally Posted by DannyB

Did you ever think they are so bad against leftys because of the players that get the starts?
Freel? Hopper? Ross? Castro? They just dont hit.

Reds vs. left handed starters: 12-22
vs. right handed starters: 26-33


I'll add Conine to your list. Hence, the need for a good right handed bat. I never said it was a terrible thing to be overstocked with lefties. But I DO NOT want this team relying on Brandon Phillips and EdE for it's only source of right handed production.

The problem enlies in the fact both Dunn and Griff are EL stinko in late innings when a left hander is usually brought in to face them or against a closer type. Both the two are also not known for getting on base when the pitcher does throw strikes.
7th Inning and beyond AB AVG OBP SLG OPS

Adam Dunn 87 .225 .325 .353 .678
Ken Griffey Jr. 81 .202 .308 .315 .623

Who is our top performer 7th inning and late?

Scott Hatteberg 79 .316 .407 .506 .913


This jumps off the page. Hatteberg is our most disciplined hitter and the biggest contributor late in the game. WE NEED MORE OF THESE. I'm not saying we need three punch and judy hitters who hit singles. We just need someone who can have a professional at bat late in the game! I would prefer it to be a right handed bat to minimize the struggle between lefty lefty in the late innings.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by forfreelin04

Reds vs. left handed starters: 12-22
vs. right handed starters: 26-33


I'll add Conine to your list. Hence, the need for a good right handed bat. I never said it was a terrible thing to be overstocked with lefties. But I DO NOT want this team relying on Brandon Phillips and EdE for it's only source of right handed production.

We just need someone who can have a professional at bat late in the game! I would prefer it to be a right handed bat to minimize the struggle between lefty lefty in the late innings.

You need some balance in the lineup; the Reds are overly left handed. They don't need many right handed bats. They need one or two potent right handed bats.

Of the three outfield positions and first base, at least one of those players must be a righty who can hit and has power. You can't keep Griffey, Dunn, Bruce, Votto, Hamilton. Something has to change or the lineup will out of balance.

Longer term, Bruce, Hamilton and Votto from the left side. Phillips, EE, and a major righty bat from the right side. That's more like it. Or, if you keep Dunn, one of the other lefties would be moved.

[BRM]

Originally Posted by DannyB

I think Conine got a 2yr deal. I didnt care for it at first but now I think he could be a good right handed bat off the bench.

Conine is only signed through 2007.

[mound_patrol]

I dont care if our entire Of and 1B is lefthanded as long as they are the best 4 players for those 4 spots.

As for trading Votto I dont like the idea of trading a prospect for a prospect, but this team is in need for pitchers more than they are for firstbaseman. I would trade Votto if he was the guy the made the deal, but I'm not looking to trade him.

[WebScorpion]

Originally Posted by REDblooded

Has trading Votto to land Salty crossed anybody elses mind?

That's about the only time I'd trade a prospect...for a more proven prospect in an area of need for our ML team. So yeah, I'd do that straight up, (Votto - Salty,) but only after exploring options in the Hatteburg + prospect X for Salty arena. Ideally, I'd like to have Votto, Dunn, Hamilton, Griffey, and Salty all on the 2008 Reds, but you usually have to give up value to receive value.

[Degenerate39]

Edit: Wrong thread