2008 is 2007 part two UNLESS we trade Dunn - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

I(heart)Freel · 07-30-2007, 03:50 PM

I outlined this in another thread and asked several questions that went unanswered, so perhaps it needs a fresh look and a compelling title.

By my calculations, the 2008 Reds will be assembled almost exactly like the 2007 Reds if we pick up Dunn's option. And for that, I only think it's reasonable to expect similar results.

I come up with $43.1 million in guaranteed contracts for 2008, accounting for 11 roster spots. If we pick up Dunn and Valentin's options, that's another $14.3.

That's $57.4 for 13 spots. Plus whatever Phillips will get in arbitration. And Cantu and Belisle are arb eligible too, but I could guess pretty low for them I think.

Even if we assign league min to the other 9 spots, that's another $3.51, bringing us to a grand total OVER $60 million before arbitration cases. Could Phillips get $3-4 mill? First year arbitration, I don't know. Can someone make an educated guess here?

So...

Picking up Dunn's option could bring the payroll up to $63-64 million. This year's payroll was just under $70.

Suddenly, we don't have much to get that 4th starter and overhaul the bullpen. Could we expect a bump in payroll? Yea, maybe. But to what? $75?

I have long said on here that, while I'm not a Dunn-hater, I do advocate his trade for the payroll flexibility.

I think we could find a journeyman starter/innings eater for a decent price. But the bullpen help I think begins and ends with a closer. A real, legit, costly closer. Puts Weathers in the 8th. Slots the younger guys in less pressure/more specialized roles where they're set up to succeed.

Yes. Dunn produces. He's a good ball player. We take a step back without him. But I argue that we need his salary to address bigger concerns. We'll score less, but give up less runs in the bullpen.

Which I think equates to more wins.

Degenerate39 · 07-30-2007, 04:09 PM

Same old thread

Muggerd · 07-30-2007, 04:10 PM

I hope its not Unless

44Magnum · 07-30-2007, 04:29 PM

I agree. Dunn must go!

Muggerd · 07-30-2007, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44Magnum

I agree. Dunn must go!

redrum · 07-30-2007, 05:00 PM

You guys crack me up. In a way I hope he is traded away just to prove how important he was to the Reds offense. I just hope you guys stick around to watch the frustration that will be the 2008 Reds without Dunn.

I don't see how you can improve an offense by increasing the rate at which you make outs.

Muggerd · 07-30-2007, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redrum

You guys crack me up. In a way I hope he is traded away just to prove how important he was to the Reds offense. I just hope you guys stick around to watch the frustration that will be the 2008 Reds without Dunn.

I don't see how you can improve an offense by increasing the rate at which you make outs.

By increasing the amount of hits with RISP maybe

.

Muggerd · 07-30-2007, 05:01 PM

redrum · 07-30-2007, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muggerd

By increasing the amount of hits with RISP maybe

.

While simultaneously decreasing the number of RISP and the number of ABs with RISP?

Muggerd · 07-30-2007, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redrum

While simultaneously decreasing the number of RISP and the number of ABs with RISP?

Yea well we all know we want our power guy avoiding hits in key situations and leave it up to the other guys to actually do the hitting.

redrum · 07-30-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muggerd

Yea well we all know we want our power guy avoiding hits in key situations and leave it up to the other guys to actually do the hitting.

Avoiding outs is almost always better than making outs.

redrum · 07-30-2007, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muggerd

Yea well we all know we want our power guy avoiding hits in key situations and leave it up to the other guys to actually do the hitting.

And by trading away Dunn, you will still be relying on the other guys to do the hitting, they just won't have runners on base nearly as often
.

Muggerd · 07-30-2007, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redrum

And by trading away Dunn, you will still be relying on the other guys to do the hitting, they just won't have anyone on base nearly as much.

I dont know about you but i guess you would agree Eric Byrnes is better than Dunn because he has a higher OBP, and higher average. Not to mention is pretty much better than Dunn in RISP situations. Then again you are probably a OPS guy so it all doesnt matter

jfar23 · 07-30-2007, 05:16 PM

I think 2008 will be 2007 with or without Dunn. The hope is he can net some good young pitching so 2009, 2010 isn't 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003....this team needs nuked from orbit.

mole44 · 07-30-2007, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redrum

You guys crack me up. In a way I hope he is traded away just to prove how important he was to the Reds offense. I just hope you guys stick around to watch the frustration that will be the 2008 Reds without Dunn.

I don't see how you can improve an offense by increasing the rate at which you make outs.

At least someone gets it.

07-30-2007, 03:50 PM	#1
I(heart)Freel Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: West Side (No Diggity) Posts: 1,010	2008 is 2007 part two UNLESS we trade Dunn I outlined this in another thread and asked several questions that went unanswered, so perhaps it needs a fresh look and a compelling title. By my calculations, the 2008 Reds will be assembled almost exactly like the 2007 Reds if we pick up Dunn's option. And for that, I only think it's reasonable to expect similar results. I come up with $43.1 million in guaranteed contracts for 2008, accounting for 11 roster spots. If we pick up Dunn and Valentin's options, that's another $14.3. That's $57.4 for 13 spots. Plus whatever Phillips will get in arbitration. And Cantu and Belisle are arb eligible too, but I could guess pretty low for them I think. Even if we assign league min to the other 9 spots, that's another $3.51, bringing us to a grand total OVER $60 million before arbitration cases. Could Phillips get $3-4 mill? First year arbitration, I don't know. Can someone make an educated guess here? So... Picking up Dunn's option could bring the payroll up to $63-64 million. This year's payroll was just under $70. Suddenly, we don't have much to get that 4th starter and overhaul the bullpen. Could we expect a bump in payroll? Yea, maybe. But to what? $75? I have long said on here that, while I'm not a Dunn-hater, I do advocate his trade for the payroll flexibility. I think we could find a journeyman starter/innings eater for a decent price. But the bullpen help I think begins and ends with a closer. A real, legit, costly closer. Puts Weathers in the 8th. Slots the younger guys in less pressure/more specialized roles where they're set up to succeed. Yes. Dunn produces. He's a good ball player. We take a step back without him. But I argue that we need his salary to address bigger concerns. We'll score less, but give up less runs in the bullpen. Which I think equates to more wins. __________________ I have a love-hate relationship with Albert Pujols. Mostly hate.

07-30-2007, 04:09 PM	#2
Degenerate39 Senor Votto Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 7,847	Re: 2008 is 2007 part two UNLESS we trade Dunn Same old thread __________________ Most Vottomatic Player

07-30-2007, 04:10 PM	#3
Muggerd Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,040	Re: 2008 is 2007 part two UNLESS we trade Dunn I hope its not Unless

07-30-2007, 04:29 PM	#4
44Magnum Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: SW Ohio Posts: 434	Re: 2008 is 2007 part two UNLESS we trade Dunn I agree. Dunn must go! __________________ 80% of the earth is covered by water. The other 20% is covered by Eric Davis.

07-30-2007, 05:00 PM	#6
redrum Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 860	Re: 2008 is 2007 part two UNLESS we trade Dunn You guys crack me up. In a way I hope he is traded away just to prove how important he was to the Reds offense. I just hope you guys stick around to watch the frustration that will be the 2008 Reds without Dunn. I don't see how you can improve an offense by increasing the rate at which you make outs.

07-30-2007, 05:01 PM	#8
Muggerd Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,040	Re: 2008 is 2007 part two UNLESS we trade Dunn

07-30-2007, 05:16 PM	#14
jfar23 Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Indiana Posts: 502	Re: 2008 is 2007 part two UNLESS we trade Dunn I think 2008 will be 2007 with or without Dunn. The hope is he can net some good young pitching so 2009, 2010 isn't 2007, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2003....this team needs nuked from orbit. __________________ "I was on tour in the US back in '89 and we we did a show in Cincinnati. During that show I shouted out, 'It's great to be in Cincinnati!' That was a lie." -- David Bowie

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