Votto and C. Trent Rosecrans

[AmarilloRed]

I could not believe this when I heard it. He said yesterday" The Reds are looking to pick up Hatteberg for another year. They are not very high on Joey Votto. They think he is a AAAA player". I really hope he is wrong about this, as Votto is the best 1st base prospect the Reds have had in many years. He has not played at the major league level. I would not see why the Reds would say this without him showing what he can do at Cincinnati.

[Degenerate39]

I'm losing confidence in the front office if this is true. What do they think Hopper is? Or Freel? Or Livingston? Or Dumatrait?

[dougdirt]

The Reds evaluation of player talent is so hit and miss I have no faith in them.

Rheal Cormier and Mike Stanton were good idea's to them. Royce Clayton was a good idea. Letting Brendan Harris walk was a good idea.

Sure, they hit on Phillips, Arroyo and Hamilton, but man they sure have missed an awful lot too.

[TOBTTReds]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

The Reds evaluation of player talent is so hit and miss I have no faith in them.

Rheal Cormier and Mike Stanton were good idea's to them. Royce Clayton was a good idea. Letting Brendan Harris walk was a good idea.

Sure, they hit on Phillips, Arroyo and Hamilton, but man they sure have missed an awful lot too.

Every team is going to miss a lot. It's the ones you hit, or the stars you miss that count. Cormier and Stanton were misses, but that didn't change the teams future. If they mess this one up with Votto, I'll lose all faith. You can't let a big prospect slide because of your love for a 38 year old 1B with no power.

[HumnHilghtFreel]

How you could determine if a guy is a AAAA talent without giving him a shot is a mystery to me. Especially when you have guys on the 25 man who are hardly even AAA guys.

[boognish]

If Votto is a 4-A talent, no way do you let that eval slip to a beat writer, you call him up and let him accumulate counting stats in your bandbox of a ballpark and trade him for something you will use. You certainly do not maroon him in AAA. Baseball America, Kevin Golstein from BP, and another author in a BP chat have all talked up Votto in the past week...there is no reason to quash public buzz about one of your prospects.

I am certainly not a professional talent evaluator or scout, but Votto really stood out to me in Spring Training when I attended a couple of practices. I will be disappointed to not see him in a Reds uniform for the next 5 years.

Frankly, I am shocked at such a comment even given the bi-polar evaluations of the current front office (as AvesIce alluded to). Why would a front office official run down Votto--or any prospect in hand, for that matter--to Trent? Is there a method to the madness I am missing here?

[KronoRed]

To be fair, maybe C Trent is just making fluff up like Fay does, but IF the Reds see him as AAAA then expect Bruce to get the same treatment, I mean..they both K a lot and walk instead of "being aggressive"

[Ron Madden]

Originally Posted by KronoRed

IF the Reds see him as AAAA then expect Bruce to get the same treatment, I mean..they both K a lot and walk instead of "being aggressive"

That's the way I see it too Krono.

Seems like most of the folks in and around this organization ignore the many valuable positives of a player just because he has a fault or two, faults that don't really mean much in the long run.

Untill this organization learns which set of numbers actually mean anything about a Pitcher, a Hitter, or a Fielder we can expect the same ol' tune.

[Muggerd]

Rosecrans is pretty awful so I dont doubt he just makes stuff up to get some pub.

[redsmetz]

The more I thought about this statement this morning, the more absurd it seemed. I agree with Boognish that it seems unlikely that anyone in the organization would let it slip that Votto only being a "AAAA" player is the belief of the organization. As others have said, how would they know that? Dubbing a player AAAA is something that can only be seen over time; and part of that time must be spent at the ML level! It's somewhat like stating a player is having a "career year", which can't be known without the perspective of some history.

I went out and found the blog entry where Rosecrans made this statement and it was some back and forth between him and other folks, seemingly a live blog, where folks were bellyaching about Votto not being called up. As I've been typing this, I'm wondering if this isn't something that Trent heard from Marty prior to going on the air for one of their chats.

It's way too premature to reach the conclusion he alleges the Reds have. I think he's blowing smoke. And the Reds can certainly pick up Hatteberg's option without being a statement of their intent viz Joey Votto. Oy!

[LoganBuck]

Originally Posted by Muggerd

Rosecrans is pretty awful so I dont doubt he just makes stuff up to get some pub.

CTR is just fine. Don't shoot the messenger, what have you seen from the Reds recently that makes you doubt what he is saying?

Votto should have been up after the futures game.

[LoganBuck]

Originally Posted by redsmetz

The more I thought about this statement this morning, the more absurd it seemed. I agree with Boognish that it seems unlikely that anyone in the organization would let it slip that Votto only being a "AAAA" player is the belief of the organization. As others have said, how would they know that? Dubbing a player AAAA is something that can only be seen over time; and part of that time must be spent at the ML level! It's somewhat like stating a player is having a "career year", which can't be known without the perspective of some history.

I went out and found the blog entry where Rosecrans made this statement and it was some back and forth between him and other folks, seemingly a live blog, where folks were bellyaching about Votto not being called up. As I've been typing this, I'm wondering if this isn't something that Trent heard from Marty prior to going on the air for one of their chats.

It's way too premature to reach the conclusion he alleges the Reds have. I think he's blowing smoke. And the Reds can certainly pick up Hatteberg's option without being a statement of their intent viz Joey Votto. Oy!

Hal McCoy said the same thing as CTR on the broadcast last night.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by AvesIce51

Every team is going to miss a lot. It's the ones you hit, or the stars you miss that count. Cormier and Stanton were misses, but that didn't change the teams future. If they mess this one up with Votto, I'll lose all faith. You can't let a big prospect slide because of your love for a 38 year old 1B with no power.

You could make arguments that Cormier and Stanton did hurt the team's future. They essentially flushed millions down the toilet on those two stiffs and, since hindsight is 20/20, they could have used Germano over Lohse this year and saved another $4 million. Those millions could have been spent on drafting better guys or signing more DPs.

[HokieRed]

I wouldn't put an ounce of faith in this report by Rosecrans. Obviously the Reds tried to move Dunn, Hatteberg, and Conine, but they weren't willing to give them away. Keeping Hatteberg gives Krivsky the option to bring up Votto, move Dunn if he can get the right deal, and still put a credible offense on the field next year. Votto in either left or at first, Hat/Cantu at first if Votto's in left. If you trade Hat now and don't pick up Dunn's option or you trade him, then you've got Norris Hopper as an everyday outfielder next year and you also have to play Hamilton against lefties--unless you want to use both Freel and Hopper at the same time.

[Muggerd]

Originally Posted by LoganBuck

CTR is just fine. Don't shoot the messenger, what have you seen from the Reds recently that makes you doubt what he is saying?

Votto should have been up after the futures game.

Hes not fine but I dont doubt he made it up. So hes more than just the messenger.