Who Do You Want to Stay/Go?

[camisadelgolf]

Dunn's contract stipulates that if his option is picked up, he has a full no-trade clause until the middle of June, at which point it becomes a partial no-trade clause.

[Ron Madden]

Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar

IMO I don't see Dunn in a Reds uniform for 2008.. Yes it's a 3 million dollar raise.. but you could replace him with Bruce or Hamilton. Purhaps you move Votto there in Spring Training so that Cantu and Hatteberg can platoon at 1st. The money has got to be spent on pitching. The Reds rotation has 2 starters.. Belisle, Dumatrait, Shearn, and Ramirez are spot starters and long relievers.. if that. Shearn and Livingston have been the only ones to show any signs of consistency and Livingston could be done for 2008. Back to Dunn.. and is not that Dunn isn't worth 13 Million.. he's just not worth 13 Million to the Reds in my opinion.

Now unless Bob Castellini wants to open up the wallet I think the Reds take the Draft Picks and and build around Harang, Arroyo, Phillips, and Hamilton.

The Reds can afford to pay Adam Dunn. I'm tired of that excuse.

May as well go ahead and trade Votto, Hamilton and Phillips too.

I quess the Reds will never be able to afford productive players.

[AtomicDumpling]

Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar

IMO I don't see Dunn in a Reds uniform for 2008.. Yes it's a 3 million dollar raise.. but you could replace him with Bruce or Hamilton. Purhaps you move Votto there in Spring Training so that Cantu and Hatteberg can platoon at 1st. The money has got to be spent on pitching. The Reds rotation has 2 starters.. Belisle, Dumatrait, Shearn, and Ramirez are spot starters and long relievers.. if that. Shearn and Livingston have been the only ones to show any signs of consistency and Livingston could be done for 2008. Back to Dunn.. and is not that Dunn isn't worth 13 Million.. he's just not worth 13 Million to the Reds in my opinion.

Now unless Bob Castellini wants to open up the wallet I think the Reds take the Draft Picks and and build around Harang, Arroyo, Phillips, and Hamilton.

We have already explained that saving money is not a good reason to ditch Dunn. The Reds have about $20 million in expiring contracts and dead money coming off the books this winter (some of which will go to raises for current players). Combine that with the fact the Reds made a profit of $17-22 million last year and you can clearly see the Reds have plenty of money to spend without having to ditch good players.

If you want to save money then ditch unproductive players like Castro, Stanton, Coffey, Freel and Ross. You don't improve your team by ditching good players.

It has also been shown that there are not any good starting pitchers available as free agents this year. None. So forget about spending money to improve the starting pitching. It isn't going to happen.

There are a few good relievers out there. They will be very expensive and will probably cost more than they are worth, but the Reds will most likely get a couple of them anyway. You have to spend all that money on something to improve this team even a little bit. The Reds are not going to solve their problems via free agency.

There is no guarantee we will get any draft picks for Dunn if he walks. We would have to offer him arbitration, and if he accepts we could be forced to pay him $17-20 million for one season.

Even if we get draft picks for him, Krivsky has not shown any skill yet in selecting good players. His first two drafts have been extremely shaky if not downright awful based on early returns. I would rather not ditch our best hitter for a couple of long term "maybes" that might help us 5 years from now.

[AtomicDumpling]

Originally Posted by Ron Madden

The Reds can afford to pay Adam Dunn. I'm tired of that excuse.

May as well go ahead and trade Votto, Hamilton and Phillips too.

I quess the Reds will never be able to afford productive players.

I think the Lindner administration was extremely effective in brainwashing Reds fans that the Reds are just too poor and pathetic to be able to put a quality team on the field. It just boggles my mind that most Cincinnati fans are so eager to accept this excuse.

The Reds are not the Devil Rays or the Expos folks.

When you factor in dead money paid to departed players and deferred money owed to Griffey the Reds payroll is about $80 million. Add in the $20+ million the Reds organization made in profit and you can clearly see the Reds could have a $100 million payroll and still be making a profit.

The Reds have plenty of money to spend -- they just aren't spending it.

They can get away with this because Carl Lindner and John Allen did such a great job of pleading poverty (even though he is a billionaire!).

I for one will not go along with the "strategy" of dumping good players to save money so we can spend it in a low-quality free agent market this winter.

Keep the good players and go get some good free agents. Stop making excuses!

[redsmetz]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

I think the Lindner administration was extremely effective in brainwashing Reds fans that the Reds are just too poor and pathetic to be able to put a quality team on the field. It just boggles my mind that most Cincinnati fans are so eager to accept this excuse.

The Reds are not the Devil Rays or the Expos folks.

When you factor in dead money paid to departed players and deferred money owed to Griffey the Reds payroll is about $80 million. Add in the $20+ million the Reds organization made in profit and you can clearly see the Reds could have a $100 million payroll and still be making a profit.

The Reds have plenty of money to spend -- they just aren't spending it.

They can get away with this because Carl Lindner and John Allen did such a great job of pleading poverty (even though he is a billionaire!).

I for one will not go along with the "strategy" of dumping good players to save money so we can spend it in a low-quality free agent market this winter.

Keep the good players and go get some good free agents. Stop making excuses!

I think you're right about Lindner, but I think Allen gets a bad rap for the work he had to do while under Lindner's employ. I whole-heartedly agree with you that the Reds have money to spend and that Adam Dunn's contract next year is affordable (and competitive) and that they can afford a longer deal with him near market.

They should be able to spend on pitching as well. You lay out a very good outline of the payroll size they could absorb next year. NOw I don't expect them to pick up Jr.'s option in 2009, but they've got lots of room to work. I just don't agree that Allen is the poor mouthing guy other than having to toe that line while Lindner ran the ship. I think you see Allen much more in the background under Castellini, being the financial guy (a position he's good at, I think) and letting Krivsky and Castellini drive the other matters.

[Aronchis]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

I think the Lindner administration was extremely effective in brainwashing Reds fans that the Reds are just too poor and pathetic to be able to put a quality team on the field. It just boggles my mind that most Cincinnati fans are so eager to accept this excuse.

The Reds are not the Devil Rays or the Expos folks.

When you factor in dead money paid to departed players and deferred money owed to Griffey the Reds payroll is about $80 million. Add in the $20+ million the Reds organization made in profit and you can clearly see the Reds could have a $100 million payroll and still be making a profit.

The Reds have plenty of money to spend -- they just aren't spending it.

They can get away with this because Carl Lindner and John Allen did such a great job of pleading poverty (even though he is a billionaire!).

I for one will not go along with the "strategy" of dumping good players to save money so we can spend it in a low-quality free agent market this winter.

Keep the good players and go get some good free agents. Stop making excuses!

Nope. Watching overpaid FA's bust and the team continue to languish while better younger talent is shipped for peanuts isn't in the best interest.

Sorry sir, the Reds "don't have money to spend". It must come from somewhere.

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

I think the Lindner administration was extremely effective in brainwashing Reds fans that the Reds are just too poor and pathetic to be able to put a quality team on the field. It just boggles my mind that most Cincinnati fans are so eager to accept this excuse.

The Reds are not the Devil Rays or the Expos folks.

When you factor in dead money paid to departed players and deferred money owed to Griffey the Reds payroll is about $80 million. Add in the $20+ million the Reds organization made in profit and you can clearly see the Reds could have a $100 million payroll and still be making a profit.

The Reds have plenty of money to spend -- they just aren't spending it.

They can get away with this because Carl Lindner and John Allen did such a great job of pleading poverty (even though he is a billionaire!).

I for one will not go along with the "strategy" of dumping good players to save money so we can spend it in a low-quality free agent market this winter.

Keep the good players and go get some good free agents. Stop making excuses!

How do you figure the Reds could have a $100M payroll and still be able to make profit?