these perilous saves wont work

[redsupport]

this weathers junk will not work next year, mark my words, this crap wont fly. his saves are too risky, it is graves part 2, burton should be the closer

[durl]

Gotta have Burton to keep the save alive in the 9th. I'm still OK with Weathers doing the job for another year.

[jnwohio]

Maybe add Bray to the mix. Burton and Bray in the 8th and 9th (Burton the lead closer) and put Stormy in the 7th which has been his typical role in much of his career until the last two years.

[Mutaman]

Originally Posted by durl

Gotta have Burton to keep the save alive in the 9th. I'm still OK with Weathers doing the job for another year.

Weathers has just had a career year and at his age will not duplicate it. if this team comes out of spring training 2008 with him as the closer, expect another sub .500 finish. Same thing if Belisle is the number 3 starter. Bailey has to take over a spot in the rotation and Burton has to step up as the closer or expect more of the same.

[AmarilloRed]

It will not matter who the closer is if we don't upgrade the starting pitching.

[Screwball]

Am I the only one of the opinion that "the closer" is only as pertinent as the significance tied to the stat of saves?

Personally, I think that late and high-leverage situations (e.g., heart of the order coming up in the 8th) should dictate when the best pitcher remaining in your bullpen (i.e. the "closer") should pitch. What's the point in running largely ineffective pitchers in the 7th or 8th innings, only to see those same pitchers make the 9th largely irrelevant? As long as the Reds' manager (whomever that may be in '08) can manage a bullpen with any purpose (i.e. Burton, Bray, Weathers(?) in high leverage situations), then who's getting the saves won't matter, they'll be plentiful in this sorry division.

[HUHUH]

Originally Posted by Screwball

Am I the only one of the opinion that "the closer" is only as pertinent as the significance tied to the stat of saves?

Personally, I think that late and high-leverage situations (e.g., heart of the order coming up in the 8th) should dictate when the best pitcher remaining in your bullpen (i.e. the "closer") should pitch. What's the point in running largely ineffective pitchers in the 7th or 8th innings, only to see those same pitchers make the 9th largely irrelevant? As long as the Reds' manager (whomever that may be in '08) can manage a bullpen with any purpose (i.e. Burton, Bray, Weathers(?) in high leverage situations), then who's getting the saves won't matter, they'll be plentiful in this sorry division.

Good point. A common situation is a starter gets in trouble in the seventh, "7th inning guy" comes on with one out and two on and the game on the line. Much tougher situation than starting the 9th with a clean slate. Use your best guy in the 7th. If you use the dregs, you fall behind and a "closer" is useless.

Lefty-righty matchups for one batter, guys needing to "know when they are going to pitch", 7th inning guys, "setup" guys, "closers", having defined roles, pitching one inning at most:

IT'S OVERKILL!! Find the best guy with the most rested arm and let him pitch for chrissakes!

[UK Reds Fan]

Originally Posted by Screwball

Am I the only one of the opinion that "the closer" is only as pertinent as the significance tied to the stat of saves?

Personally, I think that late and high-leverage situations (e.g., heart of the order coming up in the 8th) should dictate when the best pitcher remaining in your bullpen (i.e. the "closer") should pitch. What's the point in running largely ineffective pitchers in the 7th or 8th innings, only to see those same pitchers make the 9th largely irrelevant? As long as the Reds' manager (whomever that may be in '08) can manage a bullpen with any purpose (i.e. Burton, Bray, Weathers(?) in high leverage situations), then who's getting the saves won't matter, they'll be plentiful in this sorry division.

I agree 100% with you...but it feels like it is one more of these insance un-written rules that tend to dominate baseball that you use your closer always at end of game and never during any other point of game...

To me it is somewhat equivalent of only wanting your best basketball player to look for his shot in last 5 minutes of game for some weird reason.

[texasdave]

I also don't understand the concept of having each reliever work just one inning. If you have a reliever who is sharp and retires the other side easily in the 8th inning (I have heard rumors that this happens, but being a Reds' fan have yet to see this for myself), why not bring him back to pitch the 9th? Why take out a pitcher that is dominant and relieve him with one you don't know what you're going to get with?

[ThirdBaseCoach]

Originally Posted by texasdave

I also don't understand the concept of having each reliever work just one inning. If you have a reliever who is sharp and retires the other side easily in the 8th inning (I have heard rumors that this happens, but being a Reds' fan have yet to see this for myself), why not bring him back to pitch the 9th? Why take out a pitcher that is dominant and relieve him with one you don't know what you're going to get with?

Late inning guys can be compared to sprinters rather than marathon runners. If late inning guy pitches much more than an inning today, he will not be ready tomorrow. You have to have late inning guys sharp and ready to go almost every day.

Running a pen is as much an art as it is a science. even less scientific given the head cases with whom the manager must deal every day.