I hope the "honeymoon" for Marvin Lewis is officially over!

[George Foster]

He's a good man, and I respect him as a person, however the "window" for the Bengals to contend for a Super Bowl will close is a couple of years and Marvin Lewis has done nothing with improving this defense. IT'S HORRIBLE!!! We are one bad call (against the Ravens), from being 0-2.

If someone told you before the game that Palmer would have 6, count um' 6 TD passes and Rudi would rush for over 100 yards and the Bengals would lose to the Browns 5 days after they traded their starting QB, you would say that person was on drugs!
Britney Spears says hi!

I thought Marvin was this defensive "genius" that engineered the Ravens Super Bowl win with a 2nd rate QB that got released after the season was over..???

Who is in charge over their.....Is Marvin just a CEO....or has he lost all ability to coach? Is he to close to his other coaches and does not feel comfortable in firing the defensive C.? Either way it is a sign that maybe he is not all he is cracked up to be.

We have one of the best offensives in the NFL.....but if you have to score 52 points to beat the Browns....you have no chance in the NFL....NO chance...

[WMR]

You're forgetting his boss is Mike Brown...

[TeamSelig]

LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!

Uhm... sorry. Yeah, I'm starting to get a little tired of Marvin too. But I don't want to fire him after one ridiculous loss. If we make the playoffs, I might be okay with him. Who knows...

[George Foster]

I don't want to fire him either, but he's on my double secret probation list.

The whole reason for the thread was to question his ability to monitor the defense and or make serious changes which he has not done over the past several off seasons.

I feel anybody could coach this offense....it's unbelievable, but when your special teams and defense is this bad it makes me question the ability of the head coach to put "the whole thing together."

Is Brown handcuffing him when it comes to off season free agents? I don't know....but the buck stops at the head coaches desk.

[Dom Heffner]

The defensive coordinator needs to be let go. There isn't any question.

[macro]

The losses of David Pollock and Odell Thurman have not helped one bit. I think the defense would be considerably better with those two guys in there. They knew they were taking a chance with Odell, and it didn't work out. The blame for that rests sqarely on Marvin's and/or soP's shoulders. The Pollock thing was just unfortunate.

That being said, stuff happens in the NFL...to every team...and they've had five years to put together some semblance of a defense and have failed miserably. Another 8-8 or worse this year and I'd think hard about giving Marvin the ax. That's only a good idea if you replace him with someone better, though. I despise Bill Cowher, but I'd take him. Who else is there out there that would be a certain upgrade?

[Yachtzee]

I think Lewis needs to put up or shut up. Either dump Bresnahan and take the reigns himself for the rest of the season, or if he wants to continue to delegate D responsibilities to the coaches, find coaches who can fix it. I think there is talent on the D, but today's game showed an utter lack of preparation. Add to that the consistent failure to make adjustments at halftime and what seems like a refusal to adapt the scheme to fit the talent. Of course that last part may be coming from a higher power.
I don't know. I hate to be one of those guys who blames Mike Brown for everything from the team's losing past to world hunger, but I can't help but wonder if the failure to get players who fit the scheme falls on his shoulders. I can't help but wonder why Dick LeBeau could have such horrible Ds in his second tour with the Bengals, but then go right back to the Steelers and once again reclaim his guru status. I have a feeling Marvin Lewis will win a Super Bowl, with his next team.

[macro]

He's been quiet and let Marvin be the face of the franchise for five years, but is soP still calling the shots on draft day? If so, he's still the problem, and no number of coaching changes is going to fix this. Chuck really needs to go, though, regardless.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by macro

He's been quiet and let Marvin be the face of the franchise for five years, but is soP still calling the shots on draft day? If so, he's still the problem, and no number of coaching changes is going to fix this. Chuck really needs to go, though, regardless.

When Marvin was hired, it seemed as though the party line was that Marvin was responsible for the draft and free agency. He told the FO who to get and the FO negotiated the salary. I'm speculating as to what I see as either a failure to adapt a scheme to the talent or a failure to get talent that fits the scheme. I was concerned when Mike Brown said in an interview during the offseason that some of the character issue players were his call that maybe he does have a hand in player personnel decisions. If that's the case, then he can't retire soon enough for my liking. I respect that he is loyal and kept the team in Cincinnati and all, but I really wish he would hand the reigns off to the next generation. His reign as GM is a series of first round busts with a sprinkling of all-world talent. It's like he hits it big with guys like Palmer, or completely whiffs. If Lewis fails as HC for the Bengals, I honestly don't see any coach worth having accepting the position until they can be 100% that Mike Brown is not running the team.

[Sea Ray]

It seems like the only thing Marvin Lewis has done above and beyond the coaches before him is that he acquired Carson Palmer. Put Akili Smith or David Klingler at the helm and this team is no better than the teams of the 90s.

They've also been terribly unlucky with this defense. Unable to contribute in yesterday's debacle was Thurman, Pollack, Joseph, Ahmad Brooks and Jeanty. That's a lot of talent and a lot of high draft picks. It's hard to improve a defense with that kind of luck.

[gonelong]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

It seems like the only thing Marvin Lewis has done above and beyond the coaches before him is that he acquired Carson Palmer. Put Akili Smith or David Klingler at the helm and this team is no better than the teams of the 90s.

The offensive line is a huge plus. Carson has more time on one play than Akili Smith or David Klingler got in many games. Palmer also has a much better receiving corp. Add that to the length of time most of these pieces have been in place together.

They've also been terribly unlucky with this defense. Unable to contribute in yesterday's debacle was Thurman, Pollack, Joseph, Ahmad Brooks and Jeanty. That's a lot of talent and a lot of high draft picks. It's hard to improve a defense with that kind of luck.

Agreed. I think the defense would be much further along with just Pollack and Thurman.

GL

[CrackerJack]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

It seems like the only thing Marvin Lewis has done above and beyond the coaches before him is that he acquired Carson Palmer. Put Akili Smith or David Klingler at the helm and this team is no better than the teams of the 90s.

They've also been terribly unlucky with this defense. Unable to contribute in yesterday's debacle was Thurman, Pollack, Joseph, Ahmad Brooks and Jeanty. That's a lot of talent and a lot of high draft picks. It's hard to improve a defense with that kind of luck.

What was the excuse this time last year?

September 16, 2007

"What can you say? It's just one of those bad days," said defensive end Justin Smith after the Bengals gave up their fifth-most yards in history (554) to a quarterback winning the first of his four NFL starts.
"It was mental errors. It's ridiculous. At this level of football, you can not have mental errors and let guys run down the field like that. That's what killed us. We missed a few tackles, but the big plays were mental errors. ... Guys are too good, too fast, too strong for you not to be where you need to be and then not to exploit it. That's what we did all day. You're going to get your butt beat if you do that. And we did, defensively."

[GAC]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

It seems like the only thing Marvin Lewis has done above and beyond the coaches before him is that he acquired Carson Palmer. Put Akili Smith or David Klingler at the helm and this team is no better than the teams of the 90s.

I have to respectfully disagree with you there, and GL says it better then I could....

Originally Posted by gonelong

The offensive line is a huge plus. Carson has more time on one play than Akili Smith or David Klingler got in many games. Palmer also has a much better receiving corp. Add that to the length of time most of these pieces have been in place together.

Look at your receiving corp and running backs. How about the offensive line? Does Mavin get any credit at all for assembling this cast?

The Bengals were the losingest team of the 90's. There was alot of frustration and despair by their fans. One can't say that about the Lewis tenure. They may have their problems and areas of concern, but it's nowhere near those 90's teams.

And losing guys likeThurman and Pollack has hurt IMO.

Maybe, with the defense, it's not so much an issue of talent as it is the scheme used?

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by GAC

Look at your receiving corp and running backs. How about the offensive line? Does Mavin get any credit at all for assembling this cast?

I'll grant you the O-line has also improved. They at least have a LT now, be it Whitworth or Levi, but the RBs and WRs?

I think Corey Dillon and Carl Pickens/Darnay Scott compare to what we have now. The defense and special teams are arguably worse. The D was #30 last year in yards allowed. Not too many past Bengal teams can say that. When you add it all up, there's not much difference.

I think I can prove that you really don't disagree with me:

Let me ask you this and see if you still disagree. Take out Carson Palmer and add in Klingler, Akili, whoever...do you think this team wins more than 4 games? 4-12 seasons defined the old Bengals.

This team has shown itself to be an 8-8 team under Marvin Lewis and Carson Palmer. I think Carson means at least 4 games to this team. W/O Palmer this is a 4-12 team, IMO.

Do you disagree with that? How many games do you think this team wins sans Palmer?

[WVRed]

My personal opinion.

Chuck Bresnahan needs to go, at least before the bye. Marvin should take over defensive playcalling for the rest of the season. If Brian Billick can do it on offense, Marvin can do it on defense.

At the end of the season, hire a new defensive coordinator and plan a transition to a 3-4 defense and get the personnel in to do it. It's hard to predict this early, but I would like to see James Laurianitis(Ohio St LB) fall to us.