The Tim Tebow Doesn't Deserve The Heisman Thread

[MaineRed]

I'm all ears.

First QB in history to rush and pass for over 20 TDs in a season. 26 passing, 20 rushing. By comparison Vince Young went for 26-12 his final year. And Tebow has 2 games left.

I look around and see very few canidates. Darren McFadden maybe? Jason Whitlock says there are only 3 real candidates:

http://msn.foxsports.com/cfb/story/7449908?MSNHPHMA

Dixon seems to be out. I don't see how you can miss the last 3 games of the season and get the Heisman. The QBs at Mizzou, Daniels and the kid from Kansas have a shot but if one is to win they need to play two of their better games next week and in the Big 12 title game. And it will be tough to catch Tebow who has passing numbers that are on par with the two. The huge edge with the rushing TDs seems to give Tebow the edge.


Florida has 3 losses but is still number 12 in the BCS standings and did it against one of the tougher schedules in America. Tebow has had a couple of stinkers. Show me someone who hasn't.

[KronoRed]

Sophomores don't win the Heisman and players from teams that are not in the NC hunt don't win the Heisman.

[MaineRed]

Can you identify some of those players Krono? Players who are Heisman worthy and in the title hunt I mean.

[MWM]

to me, Dennis Dixon has been the most outstanding player this year and deserves the Heisman. He's played the best in the biggest games. and even if he does miss the last 2 games, unless someone else steps up and earns it, I say it goes to him. Tebow is a good player, but I think he's a bit over-rated. I'm not one who puts too much emphasis on statistics when it comes to college football.

But I do place emphasis on performance in big games, and in the tougher games Florida has played this year, Tebow has been very average. A lot of his stats have been run up against the likes of Western Kentucky, Troy, and Florida Atlantic. Not to say they don't count, but when we're talking about the Heisman, I think big game performance is critical. And Dixon stepped up big in the biggest games they played this year.

If Kansas' QB steps up in the next few weeks, he should definitely be in the race.

[WMR]

He's definitely missing the next 2 games. He has a torn ACL.

[KronoRed]

Originally Posted by MWM

But I do place emphasis on performance in big games, and in the tougher games Florida has played this year, Tebow has been very average.

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/player...layerId=183484
Going to have to disagree here, Florida's 3 defeats this year can be placed solely on a porous D, Tebow played very well in 2 of them, he was only average IMO in the Georgia game when he was playing with a bad shoulder, is that worse then Dixon missing games with an injury?

Anyway Tebow won't get it.

[MaineRed]

Anyone who wins the Heisman is going to be able to say that a lot of his stats were run up against cupcakes. Just the way it is.

[MWM]

Originally Posted by KronoRed

http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/player...layerId=183484
Going to have to disagree here, Florida's 3 defeats this year can be placed solely on a porous D, Tebow played very well in 2 of them, he was only average IMO in the Georgia game when he was playing with a bad shoulder, is that worse then Dixon missing games with an injury?

Anyway Tebow won't get it.

I didn't say anything about placing blame for losses. But he didn't play especially well in several of the big conference games. He might not have played poorly, but he didn't put up Heisman type of performances in any big game this year, IMO. That's what I look for. Did that player really distinguish himself in important games against top opponents. Not once against one of the top 3 teams they played did he come out and dazzle you with his performance. And I've watched Tebow play several times this year and I don't think he's Heisman worthy. He's good, but not Heisman good. At least that's my opinion.

[traderumor]

Like the National Championship Game will likely end up, this is a win by default type of year. The Heisman winner will win by default rather than by winning the award with a clearly outstanding season. Tebow would be the lamest candidate since Eric Crouch.

[MWM]

For the record, only 1 of Tebow's running TDs this year have been more than 10 yards. The majority of them have been 3 yards or less. So I don't see the # of rushing TDs stat as anything showing some kind of outstanding performance. that just means they call his number down on the goal line instad of RBs.

I have nothing againt Tebow. I have no axe to grind and don't care either way about Florida or Tebow, so it's not like I've got some kind of bias here. But I do take issue when players benefit from a lot of hype. Tebow is really good, but he's been incredibly hyped since last year, so he's automatically going to be placed higher than he should be. It's not personal, but I just don't think he's been incredibly outstanding when I've watched him this year.

[Gainesville Red]

Originally Posted by MWM

He's good, but not Heisman good. At least that's my opinion.

Let's get this out of the way from the get-go. I have a bias. Everyone knows it.

Tebow didn't lose the LSU game. A late Kestahn Moore fumble tied that one up. As Krono mentioned, Florida's D collapsed down the stretch.

Tebow had 225 yards of offense and was responsible for 3 touchdowns.

He was good, but not great.

Auburn: Tebow didn't lose the Auburn game. Another stellar defensive performance turned in by the Florida D.

Tebow turned in 276 yards of total offense and contributed 2 TD's.

Georgia: 236 passing yards, -15 rushing. 3 touchdowns total.

Bad shoulder, Bad O-line. It was his worst game, no question. Florida's D, and Knowshon Moreno helped. (He's awesome by the way. If you haven't watched him play you should try to check him out some time.)

Tennessee: 360, 4 TD's

Good, not great numbers in the losses. The D struggled mightily in all of them.

The other SEC teams

Kentucky: 334 yards Offense, 5 TD's

Vandy: (Who, at the time, had one of the best D's in the SEC statistically believe it or not) 316, 5 TD's

South Carolina: 424, 7 TD's. They have a terrible Defense.

Ole Miss: 427, 4 TD's. Another bad D.


I'm not going to go into the other teams. I think everyone knows how good (or the opposite of good) they were.


If Tebow's not Heisman good, who is?

I think Dixon had it all tied up, but I don't know if you can give it to a guy that's going to miss his last three games.

Are Tebow's good but not great games worst than Dixon's missed games. I don't know.

I think it's Tebow's to lose right now, and it may be because of a fairly weak Heisman class, but I'm not going to blame Tebow for that. The guy's a TD machine that's built like a tank. He can throw it just as well as he can run it. Sophomore or not, I think the award's his right now.

Unless someone's got a better candidate for me?

[MWM]

Why do people keep coming back to "he's not to blame" or "he didn't lose the game." No one has made such a claim. I certainly don't think Tebow is to blame for he Fl losses.

Again, you're coming back to statstics. I've watched Tebow play about 4 times this year and nothing about his performance in those games shouts, "what an outstanding player." # of TDs scored does nothing for me when a high percentage of them are from 3 yards an in.

It's really nothing personal. I've watched Dennis Dixon play, and he's been nothing short of outstanding. Look what happened when he left the game on Thursday. It's just my opinion. Others can disagree.

[Gainesville Red]

The Mizzou QB's no joke either.

And I agree Dixon's outstanding, but can you give it to a guy that misses his last three games? The award was all his until the injury.

And I am impressed with TD's, I don't care where they're scored from. When a running back wins the Heisman does anyone say, "Yeah, but a lot of his touchdowns came from within 5 yards?"

I don't think Tebow needs to apologize for when they tell him to run. Should he request they hand off to fumble-prone Kestahn Moore?

Again, I think if Tebow wins it, it will be in large part to the weak Heisman class. He shouldn't apologize for that either.

[WMR]

I think it should still go to Dixon. He was amazing this year.

[MWM]

Originally Posted by Gainesville Red

And I am impressed with TD's, I don't care where they're scored from. When a running back wins the Heisman does anyone say, "Yeah, but a lot of his touchdowns came from within 5 yards?"

If a big part of the case for that person's worthiness for the award is the number of TDs they score, then yes, I would bring it up. And for me, a 3 yard run is a 3 yard run. I don't sit back in awe by someone who plows it in from 3 yards out. Sure, it puts points on the board, but it's hardly something you watch and think the player doing it is something special. So you're correct, I don't see 3 yard TDs as a great accomplishment on the football field, regardless of whether it's Tim Tebow or my favorit player of all time.

When I watched Reggie Bush a couple of years, ago, I knew I was watching a special player. a few 3 yard TDs here and there would have made no difference. I'm more impressed by the 30 yard run that gets them to the 3 to begin with.

I don't think Tebow needs to apologize for when they tell him to run. Should he request they hand off to fumble-prone Kestahn Moore?

I knew what I said owuld be entirely misrepresented by our resident Gator fans. You're completely misrepresenting the points I was making. No one blaming Tebow for anything. No one is saying he's lost games. No is saying he should apologize short runs. He did what he needed to do. My point is simply that when these are the things that are brought forth for evidence of Heisman worthiness, I think the proper context needs to be discussed.

Dixon played in 10 games. He played in the Big House at Michigan. He played in a big game against Cal. He played against USC, and destroyed and undefeated Arizona State team. Missing the last 2 games of the year is a technicality and I don't think it diminishes his Heisman worthiness. I don't think missing a couple of games should propel someone whose accomplishments don't measure up ahead of him. If he missed half the season, that's another story.