Want A Team To Trade With? How About Pittsburgh?

[Krusty]

While the Reds seek the high expensive pitchers like Bedard and Haren in both of talent and contracts, one team that is being overlook here is the Pirates.

The Pirates are under new management. They are in full rebuilding mode (again). And two young pitchers that would interest the Reds are Ian Snell and Tom Gorzelanny. Could the Reds get both of these starters? That would be a long shot but there is no reason they could pry one of these starters if the Reds are offering the likes of Bailey, Hamilton, Votto and possibly Encarncion.

But if you're the Reds and looking to make a three year run, I would go for both of these starters. And what would it take to pry both Snell and Gorzelanny? How about this slobber-knocker:

Bailey, Hamilton, Encarncion, Belisle and Coutlangus for Snell and Gorzelanny.

Pirates have several young OFs but Hamilton would be a perfect fit in either CF or LF (especially if Bay is traded to the Tribe). Encarncion at third means the Bucs can either move Jose Bautista to RF or possibly trade him for younger talent. Bailey and Belisle immediately move in the Bucs rotation while Coutlangus gives the Bucs a lefty option for the bullpen and possible replacement for Damos Marte (if he is dealt elsewhere). But more importantly the deal with the Reds sets up the Bucs to make other deals for younger talent by trading the likes of Bay, Bautista and Marte.

The Reds solified their rotation and at the same time can use Keppinger at third and bat him second in the lineup, where he was able to put the ball in play....something we haven't seen since Barry Larkin batted there. Freel and Hopper would share CF and the Reds still have Bruce as their future RF. Reds have options in the bullpen as lefthanded relief with the likes of Bray and Stanton.

Thought I would throw out that idea to chew on.

[Highlifeman21]

Wow that's a lot for just Snell and Gorzelanny.

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by Highlifeman21

Wow that's a lot for just Snell and Gorzelanny.

As we have seen, the price for young, cheap starting pitching isn't cheap.

If I'm going to give up an arm and a leg for one starting pitcher (Haren, Bedard), I would rather do it for a pitcher or two that I have control over three or more seasons at a relatively cheap price.

And if you're talking the Pirates, they are starting from scratch again. Three years from now Snell and Gorzelanny will be dealt because of salary restrictions. So if you're the Reds, why not make the move now?

[OnBaseMachine]

Good grief. The Reds get robbed in that deal. They could almost get Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum for that.

No thanks on that one.

[Krusty]

We're talking the Pirates top two starters here. Two pitchers that are capable of going 200+ innings. Two guys that would solified the Reds rotation. Yes, it's a steep price but to have these guys in the Reds rotation at least three seasons, it could put them back in contention.

Reds starting lineup:
1. Freel/Hopper cf
2. Keppinger 3b
3. Dunn LF
4. Phillips 2b
5. Griffey RF
6. Votto/Hatteberg lb
7. Gonzalez ss
8. Ross/Valentin c
http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/st...it&timeFrame=1

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Krusty

While the Reds seek the high expensive pitchers like Bedard and Haren in both of talent and contracts, one team that is being overlook here is the Pirates.

The Pirates are under new management. They are in full rebuilding mode (again). And two young pitchers that would interest the Reds are Ian Snell and Tom Gorzelanny. Could the Reds get both of these starters? That would be a long shot but there is no reason they could pry one of these starters if the Reds are offering the likes of Bailey, Hamilton, Votto and possibly Encarncion.

But if you're the Reds and looking to make a three year run, I would go for both of these starters. And what would it take to pry both Snell and Gorzelanny? How about this slobber-knocker:

Bailey, Hamilton, Encarncion, Belisle and Coutlangus for Snell and Gorzelanny.

Pirates have several young OFs but Hamilton would be a perfect fit in either CF or LF (especially if Bay is traded to the Tribe). Encarncion at third means the Bucs can either move Jose Bautista to RF or possibly trade him for younger talent. Bailey and Belisle immediately move in the Bucs rotation while Coutlangus gives the Bucs a lefty option for the bullpen and possible replacement for Damos Marte (if he is dealt elsewhere). But more importantly the deal with the Reds sets up the Bucs to make other deals for younger talent by trading the likes of Bay, Bautista and Marte.

The Reds solified their rotation and at the same time can use Keppinger at third and bat him second in the lineup, where he was able to put the ball in play....something we haven't seen since Barry Larkin batted there. Freel and Hopper would share CF and the Reds still have Bruce as their future RF. Reds have options in the bullpen as lefthanded relief with the likes of Bray and Stanton.

Thought I would throw out that idea to chew on.

The Pirates are a decent idea but that's too much for those guys. I also agree that the Reds should be targeting 2 starters one who would be a #2/#3 type, another who is a solid #4 with some upside. They also should try to add another younger starter candidate to help with depth and to fill the long relief role. An established lefty reliever would probably be a good idea too. But trying to get both starters in 1 deal would require too much of an overpayment because most teams can't afford to deal off two rotation guys and would only do it if they get an insane overpayment (like the one you propose). I'd try to make a couple separate deals and would resist dealing any of the big 4. I would probably deal Hamilton if the team is serious about locking up Dunn otherwise I'd deal Dunn. I'd also be willing to deal EdE since Keppinger can step in and down the road Rosales, Frazier, Francisco and Waring may provide some long term options (probably Frazier IMO).

My Proposal would be Hamilton and Coutlangus for Snell, Nate McLouth and Damaso Marte. The Pirates get some payroll relief with the Marte and Coutlangus exchange and a centerpiece offensive player in Hamilton. If they need more kick in some combination of Stubbs, McBeth, Pelland, Lecure etc. I'd try to avoid kicking in Maloney or Roenicke but they'd be ok too.

The Reds could probably include McLouth in a deal with EdE for another starter who would be in the 3 or 4 range. Maybe a swingman too. EdE and McLouth to SF for Correia and Sanchez would be a good deal for both teams. If you can't get both, at least get one.

Get those guys and go with Harang, Snell, Arroyo, Correia, Belisle with Sanchez in long relief and let Bailey and Cueto finish developing in AAA while all the others (Maloney, Wood, Fisher, etc) get another year and the pitching pipeline to the big league team should be pretty well stocked.

[RedEye]

I think we've seen Gorzelanny's ceiling already--and it's not bad. Snell, on the other hand, would be a great pick-up IMO. I wouldn't mind trading Hamilton for Snell straight-up. If I'm Wayne, I've already proposed it to Huntington.

[cincinnati chili]

I beg to differ. That's a terrible deal for the Pirates. Snell and Gorzelanny are young and cheap, yet demonstrated borderline all-star quality performance at the major league level last year.

The only one of the Reds to do that is Hamilton (for 90 games), and he's a recovering addict. I'm not convinced Bailey is anywhere near a sure thing, or that Encarnacion will be better than average. The other guys are throw-ins.

I personally think that's a good deal for the Reds, but I guess all comes down to how you value Encarnacion and Bailey (which I don't particularly... - useful guys, not guys to build around).

[KronoRed]

Why would the Piares dump something that need so much of?

That's like saying the Reds should dump Harang.

[corkedbat]

Way, way, wat too much. I'd be hesitating to offer that for Bedard and I'd want at least a prospect with him if I did. I offer a Hamilton and B prospect or two for Snell and nothing more - probably just Josh straight up and I try to do it without Hamilton first.

Why would I throw in Bailey & Encarnacion to add Gorzelany when I prefer Homer anyway?

The Bucs don't want to do the deal? I move on to the Twins about Baker or Slowey, or SF about Cain, or OAK about Blanton or TB about Garza or one of their young guys or even another young guy like Volquez from Texas. I do not include Bailey or Cueto in a deal for any starter short of a Bedard, Kazmir or Haren and I only offer Hamilton OR Votto plus prospects.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by corkedbat

I do not include Bailey or Cueto in a deal for any starter short of a Bedard, Kazmir or Haren and I only offer Hamilton OR Votto plus prospects.

I'd prefer Snell to Bedard, as we would have him for 4 years.

I think people are selling Snell short.

He could easily be better than any of these 3 next year.

[corkedbat]

Maybe I'm not high enough on Snell then. If he is that good and affordable, I can't see the Bucs dealing him in the division.

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by corkedbat

Maybe I'm not high enough on Snell then. If he is that good and affordable, I can't see the Bucs dealing him in the division.

Why? It isn't like Pittsburgh is going to contend for the Central this season.

[KronoRed]

Originally Posted by Krusty

Why? It isn't like Pittsburgh is going to contend for the Central this season.

They just might, it's an awful division and the Cards/Astros/Cubs haven't really gotten any better.

[Cedric]

The Pirates would laugh at that trade offer. EE doesn't have amazing value and Snell is already Bailey without the guess work.

That trade wouldn't go through.