Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

redsfan4445 · 12-09-2007, 05:19 PM

per yahoo sports and the new york times:

Former player: 60-80 percent of players were juicing

Sunday, Dec 9, 2007 7:29 am EST

Former big-leaguer Jack Armstrong, once an all-star game starter, told the New York Daily News that 20%-30% of the players in his era — 1988 through 1994 — were juicing in a big way. He believes that 60%-80% of players — many of them average or even borderline big-leaguers — were doing it in a subtler, maintenance kind of way, getting enough of an edge to keep the oversized paychecks coming.

"It's time to call the rats out," Armstrong says. "The guys who did this are cheaters - and that's the bottom line. They are people who made tens of millions of dollars doing something they weren't supposed to do, at the expense of guys who were doing things the right way.

"The biggest key to hitting is how long you can wait on the ball, and how fast you can move the bat through the zone. That's what made Bonds so great; he could wait longer than anyone, and then get his bat through the zone faster than anyone. Don't give me that crap that steroids don't help you hit a ball."

Source: New York Daily News "

Makes me wonder who on the Reds back then was??

GoReds · 12-09-2007, 05:26 PM

Dibble would be my first thought...and Braggs.

Johnny Footstool · 12-09-2007, 05:41 PM

Eric Davis?

VR · 12-09-2007, 05:57 PM

Kevin Mitchell

jojo · 12-09-2007, 06:26 PM

Andre the Giant?

cincinnati chili · 12-09-2007, 06:29 PM

Jack Armstrong is just so full of credibility.

IIRC, he once said he'd rather become a tuna fisherman than report to the minor leagues. Somebody should ask how the tuna fishing was in Nashville after the Reds sent him down, one year after his all-star game start.

Dom Heffner · 12-09-2007, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Jack Armstrong is just so full of credibility.

IIRC, he once said he'd rather become a tuna fisherman than report to the minor leagues. Somebody should ask how the tuna fishing was in Nashville after the Reds sent him down, one year after his all-star game start.

Would you like some ad hominem with your tea?

membengal · 12-09-2007, 07:36 PM

Jose Canseco had credibility issues too...just because Armstrong was a bit of a flake doesn't make the observations necessarily untrue.

cincinnati chili · 12-09-2007, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom Heffner

Would you like some ad hominem with your tea?

I know, I know. I don't hate the guy. He's just a tad prone to hyperbole

Dom Heffner · 12-09-2007, 07:41 PM

Quote:

I know, I know. I don't hate the guy. He's just a tad prone to hyperbole

And he was a bit of an eccentric. I once saw him in a leather pair of overalls with no shirt on underneath at Caddy's.

I'm not a fan at all, but my belief is he is probably right, though a call to come clean is a helping full of wishful thinking.

Hoosier Red · 12-09-2007, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom Heffner

And he was a bit of an eccentric. I once saw him in a leather pair of overalls with no shirt on underneath at Caddy's.

I'm not a fan at all, but my belief is he is probably right, though a call to come clean is a helping full of wishful thinking.

Timely too.
What Jack, no one has been around to hear about steroids for the last oh 15-20 years?

Yachtzee · 12-09-2007, 08:28 PM

Ironically, if you asked me which past Reds you would suspect of being on the juice, Jack Armstrong is one of the first to come to mind. Seemingly came out of nowhere due to an improved workout regime and then burned out fast.

Phhhl · 12-09-2007, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

Ironically, if you asked me which past Reds you would suspect of being on the juice, Jack Armstrong is one of the first to come to mind. Seemingly came out of nowhere due to an improved workout regime and then burned out fast.

What, exactly, are you guys trying to protect? It seems fairly obvious that an overwhelming number of the statistics over the last twenty years or so are severely skewed by performance enhancing drugs. Baseball will survive if every last one of these cheaters is identified. In fact, baseball will be stronger.

I am amused by the number of people who seem to think it is better for baseball to sweep all of this under the rug and forget about it. Marianne Jones, Bill Romanowski, Jose Canseco, Palmiero, Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds... these are all a bunch of clowns who thought they could pull the wool over everyone's eyes on the way to earning big money and fame. It should be a celebration every time one of these imposters gets busted and embarassed in the public eye.

This is the greatest game of them all. Expunge the idiots who have made a mockery of it. Every time one of them gets busted, I have a toast.

I am prepared for the Mitchell report, and I don't care how many Reds are on it either.

RedFanAlways1966 · 12-09-2007, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santo Alcala

What, exactly, are you guys trying to protect?

This is the greatest game of them all. Expunge the idiots who have made a mockery of it. Every time one of them gets busted, I have a toast.

I am prepared for the Mitchell report, and I don't care how many Reds are on it either.

And what exactly will MLB do when the Mitchell report does come out? I am afraid it will be more about image protection and not about doing the right thing. I have no evidence, but in my own mind I think those trying to "do things now" are the same ones who knew this was going on and chose to ignore it. What will the punishment be for those mentioned, will MLB be willing to fork out legal expenses for those who might sue to protect their image and will MLB mention prominent names or just those who will good for sacrificial lamb status?

I am skeptical. Those in charge have made me this way. My trust-factor is near zero with those running the greatest game.

cincinnati chili · 12-09-2007, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dom Heffner

And he was a bit of an eccentric. I once saw him in a leather pair of overalls with no shirt on underneath at Caddy's.

I'm not a fan at all, but my belief is he is probably right, though a call to come clean is a helping full of wishful thinking.

There's no way in hell that 60-80% were juicing, even in a "subtler, maintenance kind of way."

12-09-2007, 05:19 PM	#1
redsfan4445 Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Cincinnati Ohio Posts: 2,732	Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing per yahoo sports and the new york times: Former player: 60-80 percent of players were juicing Sunday, Dec 9, 2007 7:29 am EST Former big-leaguer Jack Armstrong, once an all-star game starter, told the New York Daily News that 20%-30% of the players in his era — 1988 through 1994 — were juicing in a big way. He believes that 60%-80% of players — many of them average or even borderline big-leaguers — were doing it in a subtler, maintenance kind of way, getting enough of an edge to keep the oversized paychecks coming. "It's time to call the rats out," Armstrong says. "The guys who did this are cheaters - and that's the bottom line. They are people who made tens of millions of dollars doing something they weren't supposed to do, at the expense of guys who were doing things the right way. "The biggest key to hitting is how long you can wait on the ball, and how fast you can move the bat through the zone. That's what made Bonds so great; he could wait longer than anyone, and then get his bat through the zone faster than anyone. Don't give me that crap that steroids don't help you hit a ball." Source: New York Daily News " Makes me wonder who on the Reds back then was??

12-09-2007, 05:26 PM	#2
GoReds Cruisin' for trouble Join Date: May 2000 Location: Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 3,287	Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing Dibble would be my first thought...and Braggs.

12-09-2007, 05:41 PM	#3
Johnny Footstool Churlish Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Olathe, KS Posts: 13,676	Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing Eric Davis? __________________ "I prefer books and movies where the conflict isn't of the extreme cannibal apocalypse variety I guess." Redsfaithful

12-09-2007, 05:57 PM	#4
VR Member Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Vancouver, Wa Posts: 8,265	Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing Kevin Mitchell __________________ “Our team is a team full of fighters. They never panic. We don't necessarily get all the hits we want all the time, but we find a way to win.” – Dusty Baker

12-09-2007, 06:26 PM	#5
jojo Five Tool Fool Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 16,695	Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing Andre the Giant? __________________ "This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

12-09-2007, 06:29 PM	#6
cincinnati chili post hype sleeper Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Denver Posts: 10,358	Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing Jack Armstrong is just so full of credibility. IIRC, he once said he'd rather become a tuna fisherman than report to the minor leagues. Somebody should ask how the tuna fishing was in Nashville after the Reds sent him down, one year after his all-star game start. __________________ On Dasher On Dancer On Prancer Ondrusek

12-09-2007, 07:36 PM	#8
membengal Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Baltimore Posts: 8,403	Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing Jose Canseco had credibility issues too...just because Armstrong was a bit of a flake doesn't make the observations necessarily untrue.

12-09-2007, 08:28 PM	#12
Yachtzee Hisssssssss Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Land of the Lost Posts: 6,996	Re: Former player(Jack Armstrong): 60-80 percent of players were juicing Ironically, if you asked me which past Reds you would suspect of being on the juice, Jack Armstrong is one of the first to come to mind. Seemingly came out of nowhere due to an improved workout regime and then burned out fast. __________________ "I don't classify 'em, I just pacify 'em." - George Foster.

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