If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff? - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

reds44 · 12-12-2007, 06:41 PM

Lets hypothetically say that Hamilton is dealt in a deal to aquire Haren, Bedard or whomever. I think most people have assumed Hamilton hits leadoff for Dusty this year, so what happens if Hamilton isn't here?

Without Hamilton, one of three things will happen.

1. Norris Hopper or Ryan Freel holds the job down until Jay Bruce is deemed "ready".
2. The Reds sign Mike Cameron to a two year deal.
3. The Reds give the keys to Jay Bruce.

If option one happens, then you would assume Hopper/Freel would hit leadoff everyday, and redszone would melt down. If either two or three happens, your team would look something like this:

C: Ross
1B: Votto
2B: Phillips
SS: Gonzalez
3B: Encarnacion
LF: Dunn
CF: Cameron/Bruce
RF: Griffey

Who hits leadoff among the group? Phillips seems the most likely, but we all know his plate approach is swing, swing, and then swing some more. Votto isn't your traditional leadoff hitter (although neither was Hamilton), and after that I'm not sure you would even consider hitting any of theother guys leadoff.

So if Hamilton goes, who is the leadoff man?

corkedbat · 12-12-2007, 06:45 PM

I think it fully depends on the look of the team when the dust clears

pedro · 12-12-2007, 06:46 PM

I think you'd have to go with Phillips.

Cyclone792 · 12-12-2007, 06:46 PM

1B Votto
3B Encarnacion
LF Dunn (or RF Griffey)
RF Griffey (or LF Dunn)
CF Bruce
2B Phillips
C Ross
SS Gonzalez

It's what I'd do. It's also what we'll never see for even one game in 2008.

pedro · 12-12-2007, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyclone792

1B Votto
3B Encarnacion
LF Dunn (or RF Griffey)
RF Griffey (or LF Dunn)
CF Bruce
2B Phillips
C Ross
SS Gonzalez

It's what I'd do. It's also what we'll never see for even one game in 2008.

I like that.

BRM · 12-12-2007, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyclone792

1B Votto
3B Encarnacion
LF Dunn (or RF Griffey)
RF Griffey (or LF Dunn)
CF Bruce
2B Phillips
C Ross
SS Gonzalez

It's what I'd do. It's also what we'll never see for even one game in 2008.

I like that as well. Phillips will never hit that low in the order though. Votto and EE will probably never hit that high either.

Highlifeman21 · 12-12-2007, 06:49 PM

Unfortunately I could see Hopper written at the top of the lineup card far more often than I'd care to see.

Should Baker do the right thing, and not start Hopper on a regular basis (should Hamilton be traded), then the leading candidates would be Votto or Phillips. I guess?

I would prefer Votto before Phillips for the leadoff spot. Phillips would be a low OBP, semi-decent SLG out making machine at the top of the lineup.

RedsManRick · 12-12-2007, 06:50 PM

I think the idea that we'd sign Cameron is laughable, frankly -- though I know the rumor that we were interested was floating around mlbtraderumors or some such.

vR
1B: Votto
LF: Dunn
RF: Griffey
CF: Bruce
3B: Encarnacion
2B: Phillips
SS: Gonzalez
C: Ross

vL:
3B: Encarnacion
LF: Dunn
2B: Phillips
RF: Griffey
CF: Bruce
1B: Votto
SS: Gonzalez
C: Ross

If Dusty bats Phillips higher than 5th against righties -- ever -- I'm going to flip.

I really don't care about going R/L/R/L unless I have two comprable players. I'll design my lineup to beat up the starter and make their LOOGY irrelevant.

reds44 · 12-12-2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRM

I like that as well. Phillips will never hit that low in the order though. Votto and EE will probably never hit that high either.

Yeah I don't see Phillips hitting that low either. It would make alot of sense to bat Votto leadoff instead of the middle/bottom of the order becuase of the absurd amount of lefties we have.

1B Votto
2B Phillips
LF Dunn
RF Griffey
3B Encarnacion
CF Bruce
SS Gonzalez
C Ross

Mario-Rijo · 12-12-2007, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyclone792

1B Votto
3B Encarnacion
LF Dunn (or RF Griffey)
RF Griffey (or LF Dunn)
CF Bruce
2B Phillips
C Ross
SS Gonzalez

It's what I'd do. It's also what we'll never see for even one game in 2008.

It certainly couldn't hurt much more than nearly any of the other possibilities. Although I like the idea of protecting Bruce, I think BP has earned the right to hit higher. But more importantly BP probably feels the same way.

But here's what I would do.

CF Bruce
2B BP
LF Dunn
RF Griffey
3B EEE
1B Votto
SS Gonzo
C Ross/Javy

Cyclone792 · 12-12-2007, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

It certainly couldn't hurt much more than nearly any of the other possibilities. Although I like the idea of protecting Bruce, I think BP has earned the right to hit higher. But more importantly BP probably feels the same way.

But here's what I would do.

CF Bruce
2B BP
LF Dunn
RF Griffey
3B EEE
1B Votto
SS Gonzo
C Ross/Javy

Phillips makes too many outs for my liking. Dude had what everyone considers a phenomenal year last year, and he still had a PA/Out ratio of 1.39. Edwin Encarnacion had what many consider to be a bit of a disappointing year, and he had a PA/Out ratio of 1.53, which is considerably better than Phillips' 1.39.

Phillips is a decent power hitter, especially for his position, and offers a different look on the bases with his speed. But I just don't want that ratio of outs anywhere near the top of the lineup.

Fewer outs ===> more baserunners ===> more runs, even if it isn't in the most flashy way.

redsmetz · 12-12-2007, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

I think the idea that we'd sign Cameron is laughable, frankly -- though I know the rumor that we were interested was floating around mlbtraderumors or some such.

I think some of these rumors are no more than a team showing up on a lot, looking around, kicking a few tires, etc.

RedsManRick · 12-12-2007, 06:59 PM

For those who might not be aware, here BP's spits for 06 and 07 combined:

vR: 916 PA, .265/.312/.448
VL: 373 PA, .324/.367/.532

Phillips has earned the right to hit higher in the order versus lefties. Versus righties, he needs to learn how to get on base before hitting any higher than 6th.

reds44 · 12-12-2007, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

It certainly couldn't hurt much more than nearly any of the other possibilities. Although I like the idea of protecting Bruce, I think BP has earned the right to hit higher. But more importantly BP probably feels the same way.

But here's what I would do.

CF Bruce
2B BP
LF Dunn
RF Griffey
3B EEE
1B Votto
SS Gonzo
C Ross/Javy

Going off of minor league stats only last year (I'm not even including Votto's insane September in Cincy) I think I would rather have Votto's 110-70 K/BB ratio hitting leadoff then Bruce's 135-47 K/BB ratio. If there is one concern about Bruce, it's his K's compared to his walks.

Cyclone792 · 12-12-2007, 07:01 PM

I will add this ...

If the lineup starts off with Votto, Encarnacion, Dunn, Griffey (or Griffey, Dunn), the serious potential exists that there could be four straight .370+ on-base percentages batting in front of Jay Bruce and Brandon Phillips.

That would result in some serious run scoring.

12-12-2007, 06:41 PM	#1
reds44 #TheReturn Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Northern Illinois Posts: 23,669	If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff? Lets hypothetically say that Hamilton is dealt in a deal to aquire Haren, Bedard or whomever. I think most people have assumed Hamilton hits leadoff for Dusty this year, so what happens if Hamilton isn't here? Without Hamilton, one of three things will happen. 1. Norris Hopper or Ryan Freel holds the job down until Jay Bruce is deemed "ready". 2. The Reds sign Mike Cameron to a two year deal. 3. The Reds give the keys to Jay Bruce. If option one happens, then you would assume Hopper/Freel would hit leadoff everyday, and redszone would melt down. If either two or three happens, your team would look something like this: C: Ross 1B: Votto 2B: Phillips SS: Gonzalez 3B: Encarnacion LF: Dunn CF: Cameron/Bruce RF: Griffey Who hits leadoff among the group? Phillips seems the most likely, but we all know his plate approach is swing, swing, and then swing some more. Votto isn't your traditional leadoff hitter (although neither was Hamilton), and after that I'm not sure you would even consider hitting any of theother guys leadoff. So if Hamilton goes, who is the leadoff man?

12-12-2007, 06:45 PM	#2
corkedbat Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Lexington Posts: 4,951	Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff? I think it fully depends on the look of the team when the dust clears

12-12-2007, 06:46 PM	#3
pedro Please come again Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: portland, oregon Posts: 14,716	Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff? I think you'd have to go with Phillips. __________________ Get your nunchucks and the keys to your dad's car. I know where we can get a gun

12-12-2007, 06:46 PM	#4
Cyclone792 Playoffs Join Date: May 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 6,233	Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff? 1B Votto 3B Encarnacion LF Dunn (or RF Griffey) RF Griffey (or LF Dunn) CF Bruce 2B Phillips C Ross SS Gonzalez It's what I'd do. It's also what we'll never see for even one game in 2008. __________________ *Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012* *Put an end to the Lost Decade.*

12-12-2007, 06:49 PM	#7
Highlifeman21 Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bristol, just around the corner from ESPN Posts: 8,694	Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff? Unfortunately I could see Hopper written at the top of the lineup card far more often than I'd care to see. Should Baker do the right thing, and not start Hopper on a regular basis (should Hamilton be traded), then the leading candidates would be Votto or Phillips. I guess? I would prefer Votto before Phillips for the leadoff spot. Phillips would be a low OBP, semi-decent SLG out making machine at the top of the lineup.

12-12-2007, 06:50 PM	#8
RedsManRick Stat Wanker Hodiernus Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 14,919	Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff? I think the idea that we'd sign Cameron is laughable, frankly -- though I know the rumor that we were interested was floating around mlbtraderumors or some such. vR 1B: Votto LF: Dunn RF: Griffey CF: Bruce 3B: Encarnacion 2B: Phillips SS: Gonzalez C: Ross vL: 3B: Encarnacion LF: Dunn 2B: Phillips RF: Griffey CF: Bruce 1B: Votto SS: Gonzalez C: Ross If Dusty bats Phillips higher than 5th against righties -- ever -- I'm going to flip. I really don't care about going R/L/R/L unless I have two comprable players. I'll design my lineup to beat up the starter and make their LOOGY irrelevant. __________________ Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance. Last edited by RedsManRick; 12-12-2007 at 07:00 PM.

12-12-2007, 06:59 PM	#13
RedsManRick Stat Wanker Hodiernus Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 14,919	Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff? For those who might not be aware, here BP's spits for 06 and 07 combined: vR: 916 PA, .265/.312/.448 VL: 373 PA, .324/.367/.532 Phillips has earned the right to hit higher in the order versus lefties. Versus righties, he needs to learn how to get on base before hitting any higher than 6th. __________________ Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance. Last edited by RedsManRick; 12-12-2007 at 07:05 PM.

12-12-2007, 07:01 PM	#15
Cyclone792 Playoffs Join Date: May 2005 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 6,233	Re: If Hamilton is traded, who hits leadoff? I will add this ... If the lineup starts off with Votto, Encarnacion, Dunn, Griffey (or Griffey, Dunn), the serious potential exists that there could be four straight .370+ on-base percentages batting in front of Jay Bruce and Brandon Phillips. That would result in some serious run scoring. __________________ *Barry Larkin - HOF, 2012* *Put an end to the Lost Decade.*

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