Positional Depth 2008

[Betterread]

Originally Posted by mth123

I don't agree that Adam Rosales will play at 1B or stay at AA. Rosales bat becomes a real plus at 3B as opposed to somewhat pedestrian at 1B. He started out as a SS and can probably handle 3B defensively. He was only biding time at 1B to take stress off of an injured arm that required the 2007 season to heal. Finally, if the Reds intend for Rosales to play 1B in 2008, they sure don't act like it. Rosales was playing other spots in Arizona and since the end of the year the Reds re-signed Tonys Guttierrez who looks slotted for AA 1B and Jeremiah Piepkorn looks like he may be ready to jump to AA as well. At AAA the Reds signed Andy Phillips and Kevin Barker both 1B. It's possible that Rosales plays 3B in AA I guess since we probably agree that it won't be Frazier. But, Rosales is 25 in May, and went .278/.377/.549/.926 in 297 AA PA in 2007. That looks like a guy ready to move up to me and there really isn't anyone to play 3B at AAA as currently situated unless Jerry Gil plays there. I like Rosales quite a bit as a prospect and think he could be a plus player in a Freel type role.

Good discussion.

After reading your informed take on Rosales' time at 1B, I have changed my perception of Rosales' position switch to 1b being a somewhat permanent one.
The Reds organization does need more viable 1B prospects - after Votto, who is there?
Rosales would project well as a utilityman.

Your chart was thoughtfully put together and obviously interesting to read and think about. I appreciate the time you put into it.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Betterread

After reading your informed take on Rosales' time at 1B, I have changed my perception of Rosales' position switch to 1b being a somewhat permanent one.
The Reds organization does need more viable 1B prospects - after Votto, who is there?
Rosales would project well as a utilityman.

Your chart was thoughtfully put together and obviously interesting to read and think about. I appreciate the time you put into it.

Thanks. I just do it for kicks and there are lots of ways things could shake out. In all probabilty the Reds will sign another journeyman or two to fill some upper level thin spots and force more competition for spots at lower levels. Some guys on this chart (I vote Szymanksi , Holden and maybe Strait and Janish) may be gone before the season starts and the lower levels will probably be filled in by some yet undrafted draftees or unsigned international players. A trade for a major league pitcher may rob some depth and change the picture as well.

I agree that 1B and also the OF look kind of weak at lower levels. I'm guessing the whole Waring, Bartles, Frazier, Francicso and Soto logjam may address those issues. It just concerns me that they'll take a value hit in those positions. Michael McKennon (.833 OPS with a .503 Slug %) may be a guy to watch at 1B. A good year at Dayton will at least put him in the conversation. He looks to have some pop and just needs to refine his plate discipline to raise that OBP.

I'm kind of hoping for an Aaron Boone type value out of Rosales. He won't be a star but could be a solid contributor while he's cheap.

[Cooper]

Does anyone have a real good feel for what Adam Rosales can do defensively? I know he played 1st base and that move was the result of an arm injury (correct?)....so what/where can he play and get away with it? Some of you are mentioning 3rd, can he do that with an arm problem? One last question: he appears to have some speed based on the amount of triples he hit...could he play OF and get away with it?

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Cooper

Does anyone have a real good feel for what Adam Rosales can do defensively? I know he played 1st base and that move was the result of an arm injury (correct?)....so what/where can he play and get away with it? Some of you are mentioning 3rd, can he do that with an arm problem? One last question: he appears to have some speed based on the amount of triples he hit...could he play OF and get away with it?

I'd like some more certain insight as well. He came up as a SS so those guys can usually play fairly well anywhere based on skill. The arm injury is the real question, but Rosales played 3B in the AFL in October and November. I'm guessing (key word is guessing) that they think his arm is healthy enough to handle it or the Reds would have never allowed it. He's also played a few games at 2B and OF (not a lot) in his career so that is why I'm making the multi position leap. This is all based on the assumption that his arm is sound. Of course if he hits at the .850+ OPS level again, he may be a candidate for a permanent position somewhere and the multi-position stuff won't be necessary.

[lollipopcurve]

Michael McKennon (.833 OPS with a .503 Slug %) may be a guy to watch at 1B.

Nah. Two years at Billings following a college career. He's a non-prospect.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

Nah. Two years at Billings following a college career. He's a non-prospect.

McKennon will be 23 on opening day. If he gets some plate discipline to go with his power and can finish at A+ in 2008 and start 2009 at AA, there is still time for him to reach the majors at 25 or so. That's a lot of ifs. You're probably right.

[camisadelgolf]

I noticed you had a few players who have been released, so I did my own draft. It'd be nice if Juan Castro ended up in Louisville, though.

   MLB			   AAA		   	   AA		   	   A+		   	   A		 	   Rk		 	   GCL
 C Dave Ross		 C Ryan Hanigan		 C Craig Tatum	 	 C Anthony Esquer	 C Devin Mesoraco	 C Jordan Wideman	 C Frank Meade
1B Joey Votto		1B Andy Phillips	1B Tonys Gutierrez	1B Logan Parker		1B Brandon Waring	1B Eli Rimes		1B ?
2B Brandon Phillips	2B Drew Anderson	2B Justin Turner	2B Chris Valaika	2B Yen-Wen Kuo		2B Jose Gualdron	2B Jake Kahaulelio
3B Edwin Encarnacion	3B Adam Rosales		3B Michael Griffin	3B Juan Francisco	3B Todd Frazier		3B Carlos Mendez	3B Jamie Gianchou
SS Alex Gonzalez	SS Paul Janish		SS Jose Castro		SS Zack Cozart		SS Neftali Soto		SS Angel Cabrera	SS Radhames Moreta
LF Adam Dunn		LF Jeff Fiorentino	LF Sean Henry		LF Chris Heisey		LF Keltavious Jones	LF Tony Brown		LF David Lutz
CF Ryan Freel		CF Chris Dickerson	CF Shaun Cumberland	CF Drew Stubbs		CF Justin Reed		CF Michael Jones	CF Mariekson Gregarius
RF Ken Griffey, Jr.	RF Jay Bruce		RF Danny Dorn		RF Denis Phipps		RF Brandon Menchaca	RF Brett Bartles	RF ?
 C Javier Valentin	 C Alvin Colina		 C Chris Kroski		 C Eddy Rodriguez	 C Jake Long		 C Jason Bour		 C Petr Cech
1B Scott Hatteberg	1B Kevin Barker		1B Jeremiah Piepkorn	1B Jason Louwsma	 C Chris Denove		 C Todd Waller		 C Mauro Schiavoni
2B Jeff Keppinger	2B Luis Bolivar		2B Michael DeJesus	3B Eric Eymann		1B Mike McKennon	2B Wayne Kendrick	2B ?
IF Juan Castro		IF Jolbert Cabrera	OF Cody Strait		SS Justin Tordi 	3B Ryan Baker		3B Brodie Pullen	3B ?
OF Norris Hopper	IF Andy Green		OF B.J. Szymanski	OF Gerardo Cabrera	SS Kevyn Feiner		OF Jose Bastardo	OF ?
			UT Jerry Gil		OF Josh Holden		OF Carson Kainer	OF Kyle Maunus		OF Alexis Oliveras	OF ?

SP Aaron Harang		SP Johnny Cueto		SP Alex Smit		SP Travis Wood		SP Kyle Lotzkar		SP Efrain Rodriguez	SP Luca Panerati
SP Bronson Arroyo	SP Richie Gardner	SP James Avery		SP Travis Webb		SP Evan Hildebrandt	SP Brandon Rice		SP Curtis Partch
SP Homer Bailey		SP Matt Maloney		SP Sam Lecure		SP Juan Rafael		SP Scott Carroll	SP Enerio Del Rosario	SP Matteo Pizziconi
SP Edinson Volquez	SP Tom Shearn		SP Carlos Fisher	SP Rafael Gonzalez	SP Tzu-Kai Chiu		SP Luis Montano		SP ?
SP Matt Belisle		SP Justin James		SP Ben Jukich		SP Jordan Smith		SP Harris Honeycutt	SP Jon Conatser		SP ?
SP Sergio Valenzuela	SP Bobby Livingston	SP Daryl Thompson	SP Sean Watson		SP Drew Bowman		SP Jose Marizan		SP ?
			SP Adam Pettyjohn
			SP Chris Michalak
RP Francisco Cordero	RP Justin Lehr		RP Justin Mallett	RP Lee Tabor		RP Charles Snowden	RP Joe Krebs		RP Tom Fiebig
RP Mike Stanton		RP Jim Brower		RP Brock Till		RP Misael DeJesus	RP Daniel Guerrero	RP Scott Gaffney	RP Jordan Hotchkiss
RP Todd Coffey		RP Ramon Ramirez	RP Derrik Lutz		RP Ramon Geronimo	RP Jeremy Horst		RP Ray Jeffords		RP Ricky Rhodes
RP Dave Weathers	RP Ty Pelland		RP Josh Roenicke	RP Josh Ravin		RP Jamie Arneson	RP Matt Klinker		RP Jeremy Vinyard
RP Gary Majewski	RP Jon Coutlangus	RP Pedro Viola		RP Anthony Gressick	RP Kevin Gunter		RP Anthony Romero	RP Aguido Gonzalez
RP Jared Burton		RP Brad Salmon		RP Camilo Vazquez	RP Phil Valiquette	RP Dan Donaldson	RP Tyler Rhoden		RP Victor Navarro
			RP Jon Adkins		RP Dan Denham		RP Terrell Young	RP Dan Zeffiro		RP James Morris		RP Alejandro Astorga
			RP Marcus McBeth	RP Robert Manuel							RP Steve Otterness
			RP Bill Bray		RP Logan Ondrusek							RP Josh Beal
			RP Ricky Stone		RP Danny Herrera

[camisadelgolf]

By the way, who are Crosby and Pennial?

[TRF]

camisadelgolf, Maj in Cincinnati? really?

really???

[Mario-Rijo]

I'll tell ya one thing. If we don't trade a good size package of guys off for someone this offseason and we draft well again this season we might have a tough time developing some of these guys with the glut we seem to have. Even our bench players at some levels aren't too bad.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

I'll tell ya one thing. If we don't trade a good size package of guys off for someone this offseason and we draft well again this season we might have a tough time developing some of these guys with the glut we seem to have. Even our bench players at some levels aren't too bad.

Reds could add another team. Many teams have a short-season A ball team, the Reds do not. This would help accomodate more prospects.

This last list by camisadelgolf is an excellent refinement. I saw four things that I didn't agree with:

I have to figure Bray is in the major leagues.

Justin Turner barely played High-A ball, don't see him at AA.

Valiquette should be at Dayton, he pitched mostly at Billings in '07

Hildenbrandt, I would guess, will pitch rookie ball next year, probably Billings.

[Redman15]

I think Turner should of been in A+ when they bumped Valaika up. For some reason they left him in Dayton after the all-star game. The same thing happened in 06 when they kept Dorn,Valaika and Turner in Billings after they tore up the Pioneer league. Hopefully the Reds have changed their philosophy on holding players back. It was nice to see Frazier and Waring bumped up to Dayton this year.

[gedred69]

Originally Posted by Redman15

I think Turner should of been in A+ when they bumped Valaika up. For some reason they left him in Dayton after the all-star game. The same thing happened in 06 when they kept Dorn,Valaika and Turner in Billings after they tore up the Pioneer league. Hopefully the Reds have changed their philosophy on holding players back. It was nice to see Frazier and Waring bumped up to Dayton this year.

Excellent points! I was happy to see last year the Reds decided Dorn didn't need to play at Dayton and skipped him to Sarasota. He showed serious signs of being a real good'n. And, I hope Icehole3 is right on Waring. If he gets hot at Dayton, move him up ASAP. Let the cream rise, times a wastin'.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

By the way, who are Crosby and Pennial?

Position players.

Here is Pennial. Crosby was my error. I missed Bolivar.

I'm not finding David Lutz, Gregarious, Gianchou, or Schiavini but I also don't find them released. I saw Gregarious mentioned in another thread so I assume I missed him. I vaguely remember Gianchou but don't know if he's around.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/m...pbp&pid=453008

[dougdirt]

you aren't finding David Lutz because you should be looking for Donald Lutz.