Things That Drive You Crazy Redux

[Yachtzee]

Motorcyclists who feel that, since they drive a vehicle that can fit in smaller spaces, they're not to be govern by the basic rules of the road, like traveling in marked lanes. Nothing drives me battier than a biker using the shoulder or the space between lanes to cut through traffic. I find that to be very dangerous to both the biker and to other motorists.

[Caveat Emperor]

Commercials for Pickup Trucks

Toyota, Ford: I'm looking directly at you. I've been driving for over 10 years -- admittedly making me a novice compared to RFS, who I hear had the first Model-T off the line.

During that time, I can safely say I've never found myself in the desert attempting to dodge two swinging steel girders falling from the sky on a crane over 100 feet tall. I've also never had to come to a dead stop in front of a canyon, beat two closing doors like some scene out of a sci-fi movie, pull a tractor trailer from over the edge of a cliff, drive across a ravine while 15 industrial-strength fans attempt to blow me off the road, or subject the frame of my car to a pull-test from a locomotive. My car has never been eaten by the loch ness monster, it will never survive an alien attack, and at no point will I ever play a video game where I use it to defeat a dragon and save a princess. If I'm ever on a plane when the breaks go out, I'm not going to look to the pilot and say "drop my pontiac out the back, i'll take care of this."

Given that, why in the HELL am I subjected to advertisements that laud the ability of automobiles in such a way? It's beyond stupid -- I drive my car to and from work. The majority of people who own pickup trucks work 9-5 jobs in offices. Most people who own an SUV will never take it off-road because they still owe too much money on it to risk totaling it. Stick to the facts people care about in commercials -- or at least make me laugh, but don't sell me on abilities of a product I'll never need.

Would Ron Popeil ever sell a ginsu knife set by claiming "Plus, its titanium alloy construction can even be used, in emergency, to patch the hull of the space shuttle?"

[*BaseClogger*]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

Commercials for Pickup Trucks

Toyota, Ford: I'm looking directly at you. I've been driving for over 10 years -- admittedly making me a novice compared to RFS, who I hear had the first Model-T off the line.

During that time, I can safely say I've never found myself in the desert attempting to dodge two swinging steel girders falling from the sky on a crane over 100 feet tall. I've also never had to come to a dead stop in front of a canyon, beat two closing doors like some scene out of a sci-fi movie, pull a tractor trailer from over the edge of a cliff, drive across a ravine while 15 industrial-strength fans attempt to blow me off the road, or subject the frame of my car to a pull-test from a locomotive. My car has never been eaten by the loch ness monster, it will never survive an alien attack, and at no point will I ever play a video game where I use it to defeat a dragon and save a princess. If I'm ever on a plane when the breaks go out, I'm not going to look to the pilot and say "drop my pontiac out the back, i'll take care of this."

Given that, why in the HELL am I subjected to advertisements that laud the ability of automobiles in such a way? It's beyond stupid -- I drive my car to and from work. The majority of people who own pickup trucks work 9-5 jobs in offices. Most people who own an SUV will never take it off-road because they still owe too much money on it to risk totaling it. Stick to the facts people care about in commercials -- or at least make me laugh, but don't sell me on abilities of a product I'll never need.

Would Ron Popeil ever sell a ginsu knife set by claiming "Plus, its titanium alloy construction can even be used, in emergency, to patch the hull of the space shuttle?"

which begs the question, why do people drive SUVs or Trucks?

[nate]

Originally Posted by *BaseClogger*

which begs the question, why do people drive SUVs or Trucks?

Because we have things we need for work that don't fit in a car.

[Ltlabner]

Originally Posted by *BaseClogger*

which begs the question, why do people drive SUVs or Trucks?

I am in sales and carry a lot of sample cases, catalogs, product fliers, and other items. Additionally, when traveling overnight (most every week) I have my overnight bag and the luggage of any coworker who happens to be in town. Throw in an emergancy roadside kit and in the winter an extra jug of windsheild washer fluid, ice melter, heavy jacket, boots, ice scrapers, hats, gloves and backpack with some essential items and things get cramped.

I could jam all of that in a trunk of a car, I suppose, but 4 to 6 times I day I would have to pull things out of the trunk, dig around, find what I need, and re-assemble the trunk. That gets old...especially in the rain or snow. The extra room in the back of the Rav4 (which really isn't all that big of a vechile) is perfect for all of this.

Additionally, I cover three states and spend a lot of time on rural highways and small roads. In the winter, the 4x4 feature is handy. No, I don't go baja'ing but I do deal with situations where having the 4x4 is a nice assistance.

So no...not all SUV owners are 39 year old soccer mom's hauling a pack of kids to gymnastics, soccer and karate class.

[SunDeck]

Originally Posted by nate

Because we have things we need for work that don't fit in a car.

Granted, there are people who NEED trucks like you Nate, but my guess is that the majority of truck owners don't use the beds very much at all. I had a truck for a long time and it was handy for hauling mulch, soil, drywall, lumber, dogs, etc. But I traded it in for a car now that I need to cart kids more than building materials.

What drives me crazy is the fact that the American auto consumer has bought the notion hook, line and sinker that a truck is necessary and that it is also necessary to have a vehicle capable of managing the wilds of the bush.

[nate]

Here's what's driving me crazy right now. A decision I made 5 years ago. That was decision was buying a car for the first time in about 15 years. In retrospect, I should've known that everything one hears about this particular manufacturer and their product's reliability was true. But I was tempted by "shiny shiny" and I had the cash to pay for it outright.

It is a 2001, pre-owned with approximately half of its warranty left. This proved to be valuable because:

-within the first week of owning it, it was back in the shop because it leaked oil
-after 6 months, because of the oil leaks, they replaced the engine
-even though they replaced the engine, it still leaked oil
-numerous other nagging problems, latches not closing, O2 sensors going out, etc.

And now, the doozy. I don't really drive that much because I work at home. However, I had been noticing the temperature gauge trending up when I was idling or going slow. I checked the coolant and it was low so I topped it off and that seemed to resolve the problem...for awhile. In early December, the missus and I went out to get our Christmas tree and after we parked, this tremendous vapor cloud emerges from under the hood.

We manage to get the tree and get home, I schedule a service appointment.

Take it in to service and they call back later in the day. I swear the guy said "OK, are you ready for this" with a little laugh. Basically, any place the engine can leak liquid from is. All of the gaskets were hosed. The repair would cost $4500.

This is a (now) 7 year-old car with 64,0000 miles on it. Only 30,000 of those miles were on the "new engine". He further goes on to state that because these vehicles have an aluminum engine block, they run hotter. This coupled with rubber gaskets can cause premature failure. However, he found it be unusual that they failed so spectacularly after only 30,0000 miles (on the new engine). He went on to say if they used something like neoprene in the gaskets, they would be more reliable. So I asked if there was any maintenance I could've done to prevent this and he says no, the engine looks well-maintained. He gives me the number to their corporate affairs office and I start in earnest.

The first person I talked to didn't really seem to have a full grasp on what I was telling her, didn't get back to me in a timely manner and told me after a week that they weren't going to help me. I called back after the holidays, got someone else who was slightly more helpful but couldn't help me until I called back and made the point that how could these seals fail like this after 30k miles your "one year warranty on the parts and unlimited miles be damned." This seemed to strike a chord with her and she bumped me up to the supervisor dude. Supervisor dude goes through the whole "well, your warranty is up, the warranty on the repair is up, you didn't buy the extended warranty, we don't have records of your maintenance, but we'll look into it again." I say that at this point, although in my heart of hearts I _KNOW_ that you guys should pay for the whole thing, I would "settle" for us splitting the bill. His response is that the only thing they can offer is (and this is his word) "goodwill". Great! Goodwill that you can make a product that lasts more than 30,000 miles!

I mean, this isn't a vehicle with 100,000 miles on it. It's not like I've never changed the oil on it, it has 64k miles on it and 30k on the "new" (which I've since found out is simply "rebuilt" rather than replaced altogether) engine.

I'm looking at paying $4500 to get my car back on the road. I estimate that if the thing runs, it's worth about $8000. In it's current condition, maybe $2000. Ugh.

If you want to hazard a guess on the make, I'd give out fake rep but I think I'm going to have to sell a lot of my fake rep to pay for the freaking repair. You'll have to settle for double-fake rep.

[Ltlabner]

Originally Posted by nate

I'm looking at paying $4500 to get my car back on the road. I estimate that if the thing runs, it's worth about $8000. In it's current condition, maybe $2000. Ugh.

If you have the $4500 for the repairs, I'd tell the dealership to keep the hunk of crap and use that money for a downpayment on a real car. If the dealership that squawks about disposing of the old car, just tell them that it's "goodwill" on your part.

That, or find a dealer in town having a "push, pull or drag it in" sale that will give you some amount of trade in no matter what the condition. Use that and your cash and get something else.

[nate]

Originally Posted by Ltlabner

If you have the $4500 for the repairs, I'd tell the dealership to keep the hunk of crap and use that money for a downpayment on a real car. If the dealership that squawks about disposing of the old car, just tell them that it's "goodwill" on your part.

That, or find a dealer in town having a "push, pull or drag it in" sale that will give you some amount of trade in no matter what the condition. Use that and your cash and get something else.

rgr, I've discussed that approach. Here's another awesome aspect to the story...

THEY DON'T WANT IT!

Basically, they don't make their money selling you the car, they make money off of you owning the car and having to maintain it. Because this manufacturer is somewhat of a "high-end" (high-$$$ if you own it), they REALLY stick it to you in the service department. I talked to the appraiser there and he said that they only get a 10% break on parts and service from the service guys if they take in a car that needs some work. So they can't really wheel and deal thusly.

I've thought about getting it nice and hot, painting "OFFICIAL SERVICE VEHICLE" on the side and driving it around the dealership whilst it spews vapor like Vesuvius. I'm hoping if all is right in the universe, it will melt into a puddle of slag right in front of their driveway.

If anyone has a time machine so I can go back to 2003 Nate and kick him in the Jimmy before buying this...[redacted] vehicle, that would be cool.

[Ltlabner]

Originally Posted by nate

Basically, they don't make their money selling you the car, they make money off of you owning the car and having to maintain it.

That's about the biggest load of hogwash since BA w/RISP.

Dealerships aren't in business because they love to sell cars. They make money when they sell the car, take a car in trade AND when they service it.

[Yachtzee]

I feel for you, Nate. I bought a car that was known for its reliability and had to have the engine replaced at 60,000+ miles (outside of warranty). I would have taken it to the dealer who sold me the car, but they had already done a number of things that made me doubt their trustworthiness. So first I took it to another dealer, who said I had to have the engine replaced, which would cost $5000. I thought that was ridiculous for a car with a "name" for reliability. In fact, I felt the issue was likely one that should have been a warranty issue (arose from a defect, not normal wear and tear), but no dice. So I took it to another dealer for a second opinion. They also said the engine needed to be replaced, but also felt that it was ridiculous that it needed a new engine so soon. So they asked me to bring in records of all my oil changes. They then called the manufacturer themselves and got the manufacturer to pay for the new engine. They wouldn't cover the labor costs, but that's still way better than having to buy the new engine.

What did I learn? It's important to find a good dealer who is looking to build a relationship with its customers. They can do a lot to help you out when you have issues with the manufacturer.

[nate]

Originally Posted by Yachtzee

I feel for you, Nate. I bought a car that was known for its reliability and had to have the engine replaced at 60,000+ miles (outside of warranty). I would have taken it to the dealer who sold me the car, but they had already done a number of things that made me doubt their trustworthiness. So first I took it to another dealer, who said I had to have the engine replaced, which would cost $5000. I thought that was ridiculous for a car with a "name" for reliability. In fact, I felt the issue was likely one that should have been a warranty issue (arose from a defect, not normal wear and tear), but no dice. So I took it to another dealer for a second opinion. They also said the engine needed to be replaced, but also felt that it was ridiculous that it needed a new engine so soon. So they asked me to bring in records of all my oil changes. They then called the manufacturer themselves and got the manufacturer to pay for the new engine. They wouldn't cover the labor costs, but that's still way better than having to buy the new engine.

What did I learn? It's important to find a good dealer who is looking to build a relationship with its customers. They can do a lot to help you out when you have issues with the manufacturer.

I would settle for a half and half deal. I'll never buy another one but would alleviate some of the "flaming poo bag" desires I have right now.

Unfortunately, I bought into a "name" manufacturer with a history of unreliability.

[Cyclone792]

If you want to hazard a guess on the make, I'd give out fake rep but I think I'm going to have to sell a lot of my fake rep to pay for the freaking repair. You'll have to settle for double-fake rep.

Many (all?) Saturns have aluminum engine blocks and run hotter (they burn oil something fierce) ... so my guess is you're driving a Saturn.

[Roy Tucker]

Originally Posted by nate

I would settle for a half and half deal. I'll never buy another one but would alleviate some of the "flaming poo bag" desires I have right now.

Unfortunately, I bought into a "name" manufacturer with a history of unreliability.

So what the heck kind of car is this?

Sounds like you're doing what I'd do, i.e. work their system as well as you can in a reasonable manner.

As a last resort when all else fails, I resort to flaming bodily orifice mode where I become completely unreasonable, make a scene, and generally go berserk. I refuse to deal with any underlings and go as high up in the food chain as I possible can. I don't curse or swear, but I become very demanding, ask extremely pointed questions, try to make them uncomfortable, and don't take no for an answer. Making phone calls/writing letters to CEOs is often fun. Sometimes it works. Even if it doesn't, I feel a little better.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by Roy Tucker

So what the heck kind of car is this?

Sounds like you're doing what I'd do, i.e. work their system as well as you can in a reasonable manner.

As a last resort when all else fails, I resort to flaming bodily orifice mode where I become completely unreasonable, make a scene, and generally go berserk. I refuse to deal with any underlings and go as high up in the food chain as I possible can. I don't curse or swear, but I become very demanding, ask extremely pointed questions, try to make them uncomfortable, and don't take no for an answer. Making phone calls/writing letters to CEOs is often fun. Sometimes it works. Even if it doesn't, I feel a little better.

My dad went so far as to get the contact addresses for people in Germany when my mom's Audi had nasty electrical problems that the dealer failed to resolve.