What's up with Mesaraco?

[Kingspoint]

I see he's listed at the bottom of the REDS' organization on the GCL REDS' roster.

I couldn't find any posts on him here, so I'm left to ask the question to find out what the news is on him.


Was that too big a risk to make on a 1st Round pick?


Should they also go catcher with their 2nd Round pick in June and don't expect Mesaraco to reach the Majors with good potential once he gets there?

He looks like he's on the Drew Stubbs growth timeline and that before he's effectively an average Major League Catcher, he'll be 27 by then.

[cincyinco]

Guy was a HS pick.. he's in the GCL, a Short Season league.. games start in what.. mid/late june? he's probably in instructionals.

I recall hearing word he was very impressive so far in instructionals...

Give this guy some time, before we rush to judgement. Don't treat this kid like Stubbs has been treated around here.

Crud, Stubbs has even gotten a bum rap around here IMO.

[dougdirt]

Simply put, the Reds have too many guys they want to get playing time and as a result it means guys are in places they shouldn't be. Mesoraco, Soto, Waring, Lotzkar and Frazier would all be at least 1 level higher in almost every system in baseball.

[redsmetz]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Simply put, the Reds have too many guys they want to get playing time and as a result it means guys are in places they shouldn't be. Mesoraco, Soto, Waring, Lotzkar and Frazier would all be at least 1 level higher in almost every system in baseball.

I'm not sure how to pose this question, but isn't the organization showing some direction to be weeding out guys during the seasons to make room for players who need to move up? I haven't looked at the last couple of years transactions to analyze that, but it seems to me that Krivsky has shown that he's willing to cut minor leaguers or move them for other lower level players, allowing the better players to advance.

I know he seems committed to the step by step approach in the minors overall, but has anyone else seen these types of moves allowing for the advancement of other players?

[mth123]

Originally Posted by redsmetz

I'm not sure how to pose this question, but isn't the organization showing some direction to be weeding out guys during the seasons to make room for players who need to move up? I haven't looked at the last couple of years transactions to analyze that, but it seems to me that Krivsky has shown that he's willing to cut minor leaguers or move them for other lower level players, allowing the better players to advance.

I know he seems committed to the step by step approach in the minors overall, but has anyone else seen these types of moves allowing for the advancement of other players?

They have weeded out some guys, but they clogged the system with too many vets. All those guys you saw in Spring Training are now holding down spots in AAA and pushing guys back. But the position players aren't as much jammed because of those guys as they are an abundance of guys for a few spots. They have a logjam of guys for the IF in the low minors. Valaika stalling in High A last year stopped him from moving to AA and Frazier, Francisco, and Waring are all guys who should probably playing 3B in Sarasota. What has happened is that Frazier and Waring were held back in Dayton (with Frazier playing SS where he probably does not belong). The result is no place for Soto to play and Cozart biding his time on the DL. Brett Bartles is stuck with part time duty.

In Mesoraco's case, he probably needs time in the advanced rookie ball league in Billings. He wasn't good in the GCL last year and there is no need to jump him to Dayton until he gets a little success under his belt.

The Pitchers are really the guys being held back by the journeyman. Guys like Ricky Stone, Gary Majewski, Jon Adkins, Justin Lehr, Tom Shearn, Adam Pettyjohn and Jim Brower are filling-up too many spots at AAA. That is holding guys like Josh Roenicke, Carlos Fisher, Pedro Viola, Daniel Herrera and Justin James back to AA. With those spots filled, there isn't room for guys like Robert Manual, Camilo Vazquez etc. I think its a good idea to have some vet depth for the pitching staff at AAA, but with Bailey, Maloney, Bray and McBeth down there, there isn't a need for so many of the 30 somethings. I'd keep Lehr, Pettyjohn and maybe Shearn (out of organizational loyalty or something like that) and give the rest their walking papers soon. Brower, Stone, Adkins and Majewski are so far down the depth chart that a stint in Cincy is probably not in the cards. Those guys may be helping the Bats, I don't really know, but from an organizational development standpoint, they are just taking up space. The younger guys would probably prove to be capable replacements for the bats from a competitive perspective. The problem will get worse when Scott Sauerbeck comes off the AAA DL.

[camisadelgolf]

Mesoraco being last on the depth chart is merely a formality.

[Benihana]

I don't want to rush to judgment on Mesoraco, especially when he's only 19 years old, but...

In the last ten years, no catcher taken in the first forty picks, high school or college, has ever repeated rookie league in his second season and went on to make a difference at the big league level. If he doesn't dominate rookie ball once their season gets going, I'd start to be concerned.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by mth123

The Pitchers are really the guys being held back by the journeyman. Guys like Ricky Stone, Gary Majewski, Jon Adkins, Justin Lehr, Tom Shearn, Adam Pettyjohn and Jim Brower are filling-up too many spots at AAA. That is holding guys like Josh Roenicke, Carlos Fisher, Pedro Viola, Daniel Herrera and Justin James back to AA. With those spots filled, there isn't room for guys like Robert Manual, Camilo Vazquez etc. I think its a good idea to have some vet depth for the pitching staff at AAA, but with Bailey, Maloney, Bray and McBeth down there, there isn't a need for so many of the 30 somethings. I'd keep Lehr, Pettyjohn and maybe Shearn (out of organizational loyalty or something like that) and give the rest their walking papers soon. Brower, Stone, Adkins and Majewski are so far down the depth chart that a stint in Cincy is probably not in the cards. Those guys may be helping the Bats, I don't really know, but from an organizational development standpoint, they are just taking up space. The younger guys would probably prove to be capable replacements for the bats from a competitive perspective. The problem will get worse when Scott Sauerbeck comes off the AAA DL.

I think the Reds system an appropriate number of veterans. The Reds usually don't like to rush young guys through and that's an ok philosophy IMO. In case of a rash of injuries in the major leagues, teams want vets at AAA to provide depth. Also, many of the guys at AA haven't really "graduated" to AAA yet. I'm sure we'll see cuts of guys who can't help fairly soon.

One thing that could help advance players would be a short-season A ball team. Reds don't have one and most teams do.

Reds proved to me last year that they will fast track a player when he's ready and I think we'll see a lot of movement upward in the system this year. As for Mesoraco, Lotzkar, Soto, etc., I believe they are teenagers and it makes sense to me for them to play a half season at Billings this year, where they are likely slated to go.

[RedlegJake]

Originally Posted by Benihana

I don't want to rush to judgment on Mesoraco, especially when he's only 19 years old, but...

In the last ten years, no catcher taken in the first forty picks, high school or college, has ever repeated rookie league in his second season and went on to make a difference at the big league level. If he doesn't dominate rookie ball once their season gets going, I'd start to be concerned.

Bah.

Hs players in particular quite often have horrid first seasons. Add to that Mes wasn't entirely healthy last season. If he struggles this year THEN I have some concerns but basically I never worry about first year results for a HS player.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by RedlegJake

Bah.

Hs players in particular quite often have horrid first seasons. Add to that Mes wasn't entirely healthy last season. If he struggles this year THEN I have some concerns but basically I never worry about first year results for a HS player.

That's my point exactly. The fact that he is repeating rookie ball this year is what piqued my attention. First round prospects (high schoolers and catchers included) don't repeat rookie ball in their second season, so if he isn't a man amongst boys I would be concerned.

[Edd Roush]

Originally Posted by RedlegJake

Bah.

Hs players in particular quite often have horrid first seasons. Add to that Mes wasn't entirely healthy last season. If he struggles this year THEN I have some concerns but basically I never worry about first year results for a HS player.

Derek Jeter springs immediately to mind.

[Kingspoint]

Originally Posted by Benihana

I don't want to rush to judgment on Mesoraco, especially when he's only 19 years old, but...

In the last ten years, no catcher taken in the first forty picks, high school or college, has ever repeated rookie league in his second season and went on to make a difference at the big league level. If he doesn't dominate rookie ball once their season gets going, I'd start to be concerned.

He's 20 now (june 19, he'll be 20).

[M2]

Originally Posted by cincyinco

I recall hearing word he was very impressive so far in instructionals...

I remember when Ricardo Aramboles was supposedly a stud in the instructional camp. Jordan Belcher once thrived in games that didn't count as well.

Originally Posted by cincyinco

Give this guy some time, before we rush to judgement. Don't treat this kid like Stubbs has been treated around here.

Actually, if things go wrong, Mesoraco could be the best thing that ever happened to Drew Stubbs.

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Mesoraco, Soto, Waring, Lotzkar and Frazier would all be at least 1 level higher in almost every system in baseball.

Frazier and Waring, sure. Mesoraco, Soto and Lotzkar were all in the GCL last year and playing in Billings represents a step forward. Lotzkar's so young that I see little reason to rush him. A sensible major league ETA for him would be six years from now, when he's 24. I'm sure other organizations would push him too quickly as part of a lousy development plan, but it's nice to see the Reds act like adult professionals. Soto's definitely caught at the back of a queue, but Mesoraco's not. If the Reds thought he could handle the MWL, he'd be starting in the MWL. There's only one thing keeping him in rookie ball, the Reds clearly don't think he's ready for a full-season circuit.

[Kingspoint]

On a couple of the pitcher's mentioned in this thread. Viola should probably stay where he is all year long. He went through three levels last year where he dominated them all, but so far he's the worst pitcher on the team right now. He's struggling to get anybody out.

Majewski is also the worst pitcher on his team right now. He can't get anybody out, so they couldn't even trade him right now for anything. A cut may be in his future. He's probably trade fodder right now anyway and if they can get someone to take a flyer on him in exchange for a low-A player, Krivsky will do it.

[Kingspoint]

M2, Mesaraco is on the GCL Roster again. He hasn't made it to Billings, yet. Other 2nd Round Catchers are already at High-A in some organizations and hitting over .300 the 1st Week of 2008. They were in College, but they also had injuries last year as difficult as Mesoraco's.

If I remember you were OK with the pick, but you also brought up the idea that picking an 18-year old who's only competition was some American Legion games where his dad was the coach, and who's had "major" surgery, was not worth the risk. I'm just trying to remember whether you said that or not, but it doesn't matter. I'm not trying to hold you to anything, but actually trying to give you some credit. Mesoraco's current situation after 9 months is the worst-case scenario.

I know that his weakness was supposed to be defense and perhaps he was so horrible at defense last year that they want him to spend another season in the instructional league. Isn't that what the GCL is? If that's the case, then I'm all for it. I always felt at the time of the pick that he hadn't been around enough good teachers to begin with and I'd like to see him stick as a catcher. As evidenced by last season, he needs to work on his hitting, too (a Castro-esque .580 OPS last season). He should dominate the GCL league in the hitting category given that he'll be 20 on June 18th and should be able to physically overmatch the rest of the league.

Again, I'm hoping the reason he's in the GCL still is because they want him to develop into a good defensive catcher to go along with his offensive skills.

Now, the other question.....Do we draft a Catcher with our 2nd Round pick?