Who's the leadoff hitter? - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

Chip R · 04-19-2008, 09:05 PM

It appears that the Corey Patterson leadoff experiment is a failure. Our other candidates, Freel and Hopper, have some limitations that really don't make them ideal leadoff hitters. A player like Keppenger could lead off but Dusty likes guys with speed at the top of the lineup and he doesn't possess the speed those other three players do. Jay Bruce may be able to do it short term but long term, he's a middle of the lineup hitter.

So who can fill the bill? Since Dusty's the manager, having a very good OBP isn't enough if you can't run. I'm thinking it has to be someone from outside the organization who is probably an OFer - preferably a CFer. If it is someone outside the organization, what would it take to get him?

HumnHilghtFreel · 04-19-2008, 09:18 PM

Jeff Keppinger... and have B Cast invest in a jetpack. There you go Dusty, a great hitter with speed.

Spring~Fields · 04-19-2008, 09:33 PM

That is a tough question for Dusty since he likes to increase the degree of difficulty.

Assuming that Dusty has come to the belief that Patterson won't cut it at leadoff if it was me I would call up Bruce. Watched him on MILB tonight and he seems to have the confidence, hitting, speed and fielding abilities.

pahster · 04-19-2008, 10:31 PM

If he's gonna put up a .340ish OBP over the course of the year, let Phillips do it.

rotnoid · 04-19-2008, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pahster

If he's gonna put up a .340ish OBP over the course of the year, let Phillips do it.

Works for me. He had enough speed to steal 30 last year. Should fit Dusty's criteria. That leaves a RH hole in the middle of the order though. So the new question becomes... where does that come from.

Ravenlord · 04-19-2008, 10:36 PM

i like Dunn leading off right now.

mostly unrelated, but does anyone think Dunn would get fewere balls at his shins called strikes if he wore the high stirups?

guttle11 · 04-19-2008, 10:37 PM

I'd definitely go with Keppinger right now. He'll be a patchwork guy, but Patterson simply cannot be the guy that theoretically gets the most ABs in the lineup.

Although if he promises to drop the bunt down every time, I'd put Hopper there for a while. He'd probably have a higher OBP bunting every time than Patterson.

flyer85 · 04-19-2008, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chip R

It appears that the Corey Patterson leadoff experiment is a failure. Our other candidates

it was a fait accompli

go with Kepp, move EE to 2nd and put Jr 3rd and Dunn 4th

KronoRed · 04-19-2008, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyer85

it was a fait accompli

go with Kepp, move EE to 2nd and put Jr 3rd and Dunn 4th

I agree, Kep is the leadoff hitter.

Chip R · 04-19-2008, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenlord

i like Dunn leading off right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by guttle11

I'd definitely go with Keppinger right now. He'll be a patchwork guy, but Patterson simply cannot be the guy that theoretically gets the most ABs in the lineup.

Although if he promises to drop the bunt down every time, I'd put Hopper there for a while. He'd probably have a higher OBP bunting every time than Patterson.

Gotta remember, fellas, we're in Dustyland now. Dunn is not going to lead off ever so we may as well put that out of our minds right now.

As for Hopper, I see him more as a #2 hitter than a leadoff guy. With no one on base, the 1st and 3rd basemen can play so close they are shaking hands with the guy. With someone on, however, the corner IFers have to play close to their bases and Hop can bunt easier.

Kepp would be a great choice but I don't think Dusty would do it. Besides, Kepp may not have a position to play when Gonzo comes back.

Phhhl · 04-19-2008, 10:50 PM

Jay Bruce. I really, REALLY hate to admit it, but I am really starting to think the squire is on to something with the pitcher in the number 8 hole. Bring up Bruce and hit him leadoff playing centerfield, put Keppinger in the number 9 hole so he is on base 35-38% of the time when Jay comes up later in the ballgame. Move Votto up in the order right behind Dunn. Seperate Jr. and Dunn with Edwin, who will be hitting well enough to justify that move soon enough. I like Phillips hitting second, despite the double play numbers. Bruce will hit enough extra base hits to diminish that number.

It's kind of a crapshoot. But, when you look at what has happened so far, it is the lineup that is absolutely killing this team. We are leading the league in strikeouts, and the bullpen is getting the job done better than a much improved rotation. That's the facts.

It's time to make some radical moves to this lineup before we find ourselves in deep bovine scathology. Personally, I am running out of ways to justify the remarkable secondary skills of Corey Patterson.

KronoRed · 04-19-2008, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chip R

Kepp would be a great choice but I don't think Dusty would do it. Besides, Kepp may not have a position to play when Gonzo comes back.

Sure he will, Shortstop.

Phhhl · 04-19-2008, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KronoRed

Sure he will, Shortstop.

Bruce CF
Phillips 2b
JR. RF
Edwin 3b
Dunn LF
Votto 1b
Ross\Valentin C
Pitcher P
Kepp SS

That's a good balance of left/right, could account for any orientation day by day without requiring platoons. Votto protects Dunn, where there is noone now. Dunn protects Edwin, where there is noone now. Bruce gets rbi opportunities after his first ab every day. Ross and Valentin play the percentages based on who is starting. Keppinger is an exponentially better hitter than Jason Kendall, who is the poster boy for Larussa's hair brained scheme.

The Reds are getting more than good enough pitching to win. But, the lineup is catty wompas as it is, and there is no indication it will get better without a major shakeup. I like Corey Patterson if he is used correctly on this team, but that role is as a complimentary player who can hit a home run off the bench, steal a base as a pinch runner or play defense late in games.

It is already PAST time for Jay Bruce.

*BaseClogger* · 04-19-2008, 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santo Alcala

put Keppinger in the number 9 hole

And... Stop.

WVRedsFan · 04-19-2008, 11:34 PM

Chip:

Is it an official failure? Has Dusty said so? I really don't think he thinks it's a failure, but I've got news for him. It is.

We don't have a leadoff hitter on the roster. Freel is to impatient and swings wildly. Hopper can bunt--he's a one trick pony who will get some infield hits. He has no pucnch whatsoever. The only choice we have is Keppinger and the lineup should go:

Keppinger
Votto
Dunn
Griffey
Encarnacion
Phillips
Patterson
Bako (or whoever)
Pitcher

04-19-2008, 09:05 PM	#1
Chip R Rally Onion! Join Date: May 2000 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 33,223	Who's the leadoff hitter? It appears that the Corey Patterson leadoff experiment is a failure. Our other candidates, Freel and Hopper, have some limitations that really don't make them ideal leadoff hitters. A player like Keppenger could lead off but Dusty likes guys with speed at the top of the lineup and he doesn't possess the speed those other three players do. Jay Bruce may be able to do it short term but long term, he's a middle of the lineup hitter. So who can fill the bill? Since Dusty's the manager, having a very good OBP isn't enough if you can't run. I'm thinking it has to be someone from outside the organization who is probably an OFer - preferably a CFer. If it is someone outside the organization, what would it take to get him? __________________ The Rally Onion wants 150 fans before Opening Day. http://www.facebook.com/pages/Rally-...24872650873160

04-19-2008, 09:33 PM	#3
Spring~Fields Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 8,630	Re: Who's the leadoff hitter? That is a tough question for Dusty since he likes to increase the degree of difficulty. Assuming that Dusty has come to the belief that Patterson won't cut it at leadoff if it was me I would call up Bruce. Watched him on MILB tonight and he seems to have the confidence, hitting, speed and fielding abilities. Last edited by Spring~Fields; 04-19-2008 at 09:43 PM.

04-19-2008, 10:31 PM	#4
pahster Something clever Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Carrboro, NC Posts: 1,898	Re: Who's the leadoff hitter? If he's gonna put up a .340ish OBP over the course of the year, let Phillips do it.

04-19-2008, 10:36 PM	#6
Ravenlord Into de Halls of Valhalla Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: mostly Williamsburg....occassionaly the rest of the several state region. Posts: 8,909	Re: Who's the leadoff hitter? i like Dunn leading off right now. mostly unrelated, but does anyone think Dunn would get fewere balls at his shins called strikes if he wore the high stirups? __________________ the store for all your blade, costuming (in any regard), leather (also in any regard), and steel craft needs.www.facebook.com/tdhshop yes, this really is how we make our living.

04-19-2008, 10:37 PM	#7
guttle11 Raaaaaaaandy Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 4,118	Re: Who's the leadoff hitter? I'd definitely go with Keppinger right now. He'll be a patchwork guy, but Patterson simply cannot be the guy that theoretically gets the most ABs in the lineup. Although if he promises to drop the bunt down every time, I'd put Hopper there for a while. He'd probably have a higher OBP bunting every time than Patterson. __________________ "I saw Wedding Crashers accidentally. I bought a ticket for Grizzly Man and went into the wrong theater. After an hour, I figured I was in the wrong theater, but I kept waiting. That’s the thing about bear attacks. They come when you least expect it."-Dwight K. Schrute

04-19-2008, 09:18 PM	#2
HumnHilghtFreel Manliness Personified Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 2,690	Re: Who's the leadoff hitter? Jeff Keppinger... and have B Cast invest in a jetpack. There you go Dusty, a great hitter with speed.

04-19-2008, 10:50 PM	#11
Phhhl Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 3,890	Re: Who's the leadoff hitter? Jay Bruce. I really, REALLY hate to admit it, but I am really starting to think the squire is on to something with the pitcher in the number 8 hole. Bring up Bruce and hit him leadoff playing centerfield, put Keppinger in the number 9 hole so he is on base 35-38% of the time when Jay comes up later in the ballgame. Move Votto up in the order right behind Dunn. Seperate Jr. and Dunn with Edwin, who will be hitting well enough to justify that move soon enough. I like Phillips hitting second, despite the double play numbers. Bruce will hit enough extra base hits to diminish that number. It's kind of a crapshoot. But, when you look at what has happened so far, it is the lineup that is absolutely killing this team. We are leading the league in strikeouts, and the bullpen is getting the job done better than a much improved rotation. That's the facts. It's time to make some radical moves to this lineup before we find ourselves in deep bovine scathology. Personally, I am running out of ways to justify the remarkable secondary skills of Corey Patterson.

04-19-2008, 11:34 PM	#15
WVRedsFan Lime in da Coconut Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Rainelle, WV Posts: 7,712	Re: Who's the leadoff hitter? Chip: Is it an official failure? Has Dusty said so? I really don't think he thinks it's a failure, but I've got news for him. It is. We don't have a leadoff hitter on the roster. Freel is to impatient and swings wildly. Hopper can bunt--he's a one trick pony who will get some infield hits. He has no pucnch whatsoever. The only choice we have is Keppinger and the lineup should go: Keppinger Votto Dunn Griffey Encarnacion Phillips Patterson Bako (or whoever) Pitcher __________________ www.ris-news.com "The price of seeking to force our beliefs on others is that someday they might force their beliefs on us." Mario Cuomo "You only have to bat a thousand in two things; flying and heart transplants. Everything else you can go 4-for-5." -Beano Cook

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