Who's the leadoff hitter?

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by WVRedsFan

Chip:

Is it an official failure? Has Dusty said so? I really don't think he thinks it's a failure, but I've got news for him. It is.

We don't have a leadoff hitter on the roster.

CP doesn't play against lefties and we need someone in there who is going to play pretty much every day. I love his defense but if he's not going to play 20% of the time, what good is that defense? I think benching CP against Sheets was telling. Incidentally I heard Marty ask Dusty about that before Friday's game. Dusty said something to the effect of, "We need someone to get on base." Dusty may not worship at the altar of OBP but he wants guys in the lineup who can hit. That's why we are seeing Keppinger at SS instead of Castro. As long as Dusty is manager, CP is going to have to hit to stay in that lineup.

I agree. We don't have a true leadoff hitter in the sense of a .280-.300 hitter who can steal 40-50 bases a year and play great defense. That's what Dusty wants. The only guy that really fits that criteria is Brandon Phillips and he has too much power to hit leadoff in Dustyland.

So where does that leave us? Obviously if that person isn't inside the organization, they have to be on another team now. What about that guy in the Angels system, Reggie Willets? What about someone else? C'mon, you minor league guys, give us some names.

[Phhhl]

Originally Posted by Chip R

CP doesn't play against lefties and we need someone in there who is going to play pretty much every day. I love his defense but if he's not going to play 20% of the time, what good is that defense? I think benching CP against Sheets was telling. Incidentally I heard Marty ask Dusty about that before Friday's game. Dusty said something to the effect of, "We need someone to get on base." Dusty may not worship at the altar of OBP but he wants guys in the lineup who can hit. That's why we are seeing Keppinger at SS instead of Castro. As long as Dusty is manager, CP is going to have to hit to stay in that lineup.

I agree. We don't have a true leadoff hitter in the sense of a .280-.300 hitter who can steal 40-50 bases a year and play great defense. That's what Dusty wants. The only guy that really fits that criteria is Brandon Phillips and he has too much power to hit leadoff in Dustyland.

So where does that leave us? Obviously if that person isn't inside the organization, they have to be on another team now. What about that guy in the Angels system, Reggie Willets? What about someone else? C'mon, you minor league guys, give us some names.

You're knocking yourself out for nothing. The man's name is Jay Bruce. It HAS to be done. The season will probably be lost without him.

[KronoRed]

Willits is barely playing for the Anegels and would solve the leadoff problem for the next 5 years, would also keep Bruce out of the leadoff spot.

[AtomicDumpling]

1.Votto
2.Keppinger
3.Dunn
4.Phillips
5.Griffey
6.Encarnacion
7.Bruce/Patterson
8.Ross/Bako
9.Pitcher

Perfect lefty/righty balance all the way down.

Makes sure the best hitters get the most plate appearances.

Get the high-OBP guys at the top.

Lets Bruce ease his way into the lineup and earn his way to the top.

Gives Dunn some much-needed protection so he will see better pitches.

Griffey may object to hitting 5th but I don't care. He can be a loser hitting 3rd or take a shot at winning hitting 5th.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling

1.Votto
2.Keppinger
3.Dunn
4.Phillips
5.Griffey
6.Encarnacion
7.Bruce/Patterson
8.Ross/Bako
9.Pitcher

Perfect lefty/righty balance all the way down.

Makes sure the best hitters get the most plate appearances.

Get the high-OBP guys at the top.

Ideally, that's the best solution - although not necessarily that lineup. But, again, we have to remember who the manager is. Dusty's about as likely to bat Votto leadoff as he is to stop saying, "Dude". He's going to want that prototypical 1960s-1970s leadoff hitter at the top of the lineup. Unless Patterson starts hitting, that person is not on this team and is not in this organization. I hope Jay Bruce will be a fine MLB player but batting him leadoff is not in his long-term future. Especially for someone who has not faced major league pitching outside spring training.

[Spring~Fields]

The Reds really don't have a leadoff per your criteria.

If walks were counted as singles I would have to use Dunn because he gets on base more than the rest, with the lone exception of Keppinger who is tied with him I believe.

If walks were singles BA
Dunn - .424
Bako - .404
Keppinger - .378
Encarcion - .378
Griffey - .377
Phillips - .343
Votto - .333
Freel - .300
Hopper - .296
Patterson - .263

[HumnHilghtFreel]

Originally Posted by KronoRed

Willits is barely playing for the Anegels and would solve the leadoff problem for the next 5 years, would also keep Bruce out of the leadoff spot.

Not a bad idea. I don't know what his glove is like, but from what I've seen out of him, he's been very good at the plate in the leadoff role, keeping around a .400 OBP in 476 MLB at bats.

Minors #'s
.410 OBP in rookie ball
.373 in high A
.377 in AA
.448 in AAA

I like this idea a lot after looking at all that. He fills the Dusty "speed criteria" and he's a legit on base guy. I wonder what it would take to grab him from them?

[WVRedsFan]

The club's problem right now is the following:

--Patterson makes an out after three pitches
--Keppinger gets a single or a double
--Griffey gets nothing to hit and makes an out
--Phillips hits the first pitch on a line to the shortstop - 2 out
--Dunn walks
--Edwin hits the second pitch and pops out to the left firlder.

A total of 21 pitches and we leave 2 on base and lead off he second with the bottom of the order. It drives me nuts. If the leadoff guy gets on base and the pitcher has to work from the stretch, it changes everything. keppinger's hit moves the leadoff hitter over. Griffey gets something to hit. Phillips will be Phillips, but he likely gets something going.

the leadoff hitter is the key and so far, he's not getting on base.

[pahster]

Originally Posted by KronoRed

Willits is barely playing for the Anegels and would solve the leadoff problem for the next 5 years, would also keep Bruce out of the leadoff spot.

WANT.

[membengal]

Atomic Dumpling all over it, in my opinion. That's what I would do (assuming no trade for someone helpful like Willits).

As for whether Dusty will think out of the box, chip, I tend to agree with you, but perhaps the team's lingering and obvious offensive woes will force him to make some previously unthinkable (for him) adjustments.

[RedlegJake]

I enjoy reading these lineups. Some good ideas. Of course we're just chatting amongst ourselves since Dusty is the manager. Something has to give. Even with Dusty at some point.

[Far East]

Originally Posted by SpringfieldFan

If walks were singles BA
Dunn - .424
Bako - .404
Keppinger - .378
Encarcion - .378
Griffey - .377
Phillips - .343
Votto - .333
Freel - .300
Hopper - .296
Patterson - .263

Keppinger - .378
Dunn - .424
Encarnacion - .378
Griffey - .377
Phillips - .343
Votto - .333
Pitcher - .???
Bako - .404

1. R-L-R balance throughout
2. Kepp on base would neutralize the extreme shift against Dunn
3. Pitcher can sac bunt with a decent base runner ahead of him
4. After the pitcher comes a fair OBP guy to transition back into the top of the order.
5. The best OBP guys (excluding Bako) get the most AB

[Spring~Fields]

Originally Posted by Far East

Keppinger - .378
Dunn - .424
Encarnacion - .378
Griffey - .377
Phillips - .343
Votto - .333
Pitcher - .???
Bako - .404

1. R-L-R balance throughout
2. Kepp on base would neutralize the extreme shift against Dunn
3. Pitcher can sac bunt with a decent base runner ahead of him
4. After the pitcher comes a fair OBP guy to transition back into the top of the order.
5. The best OBP guys (excluding Bako) get the most AB

Good points.
I like that, it is interesting and inventive. I think it would produce.

[WebScorpion]

IMHO, the primary attribute for a leadoff hitter is OBP, secondary is the ability and willingness to take a lot of pitches, and tertiary is baserunning/stealling ability. In the current lineup there are only 3 players with an OBP over .350...Keppinger, Bako, Dunn, and Encarnacion. Of those, Dunn, Kepp, and EE are the only ones with career numbers over .350. I'd bat them like this:

Keppinger
Dunn
Encarnacion
Griffey
Phillips
Votto
Bako
Pitcher
Patterson

I know, I know, it would look like we're copying Larussa, but Patterson is exactly the type who could work in that 9-hole instead of the pitcher scenario. His OBP is low, so there is really no advantage to giving him extra at-bats, (top of the order,) but he still can steal a base and is disruptive when he DOES get on, so it's nice to have him on in front of the big boppers.

[CaiGuy]

I would like:

Votto
Encarnation
Dunn
Griffey
Keppinger
Phillips
Patterson
Catcher
Pitcher

A somewhat more Dusty-friendly but nice lineup:

Votto
Keppinger
Griffey
Dunn
Phillips
Encarnation
Patterson
Cather
Pitcher

And my wacky lineup (I really think that the lineup projection systems would love this)
I seriously would like to see this:
Dunn
Encarnation
Griffey
Keppinger
Votto
Phillips
Patterson
Ross
P


So to answer the thread, I see Votto as the next best choice for leadoff. He gets on base and he isn't pokey (he stole a few bases in the high minors).