Doc sez Krivsky FIRED!

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by cincrazy

I wish Wayne nothing but the best. I think he's truly talented as a talent evaluator, and he'll land on his feet somewhere. Good luck.

Bob, I sure as hell hope you know what you're doing. A little too Steinbrenner'esque for my tastes, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt with Jocketty.

Sure wouldn't want a demanding owner, would we?

[jojo]

Originally Posted by Chip R

If part of the reason for Wayne's sacking was the bad contracts, Walt may be a little shy to sign anyone to a big money deal, not to mention a mega-huge deal like Dunn.

Walt's got the credibility to sustain losing. Krivsky isn't "proven".

I think this philosophy will color a lot of personnel moves in the future.

Maybe the farm will be leveraged.

[Reds Nd2]

Originally Posted by M2

Hey, been busy the past two weeks. Anything noteworthy happen with the Reds?

For the record, I think this is the best Reds team to take the field in eight years even if it is still a flawed enterprise. I don't think the 9-12 start is reason for concern and it certainly isn't reason to dump Krivsky.

Krivsky got fired because as soon as Walt Jocketty showed up he was always going to be fired for the first convenient excuse. That's just unconscious knowledge.

Still doesn't mean that I have to like it any better.

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

At the end of the day, I was a Wayne Krivsky supporter. He was working within the constraints of small market -- small market demands you nibble at the corners for some things while spending big money on others. Small market demands you gamble occasionally and hope to land the big score. He swung and miss on a few, he hit big on a few others.

The core of this team (Votto, Phillips, Keppinger, Dunn, Cueto, Volquez, Harang) WILL win. I'd lay my own money that they will be a postseason team within the next two years. Jocketty will get the credit, but it will be Krivsky that laid the foundation for this to happen.

I just want to give props to Wayne Krivsky for not destroying that foundation in a last ditch effort to stave off the specter of one Mr. Jocketty.

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

I wish Wayne nothing but the best.

He'll have another job in baseball, just as soon as he wishes. No doubt.

[WVRed]

Originally Posted by Reds Fanatic

This is from Fay's blog tonight. Quotes from Krivsky:

Jocketty can be an excellent GM if he is provided the money to back up the moves. Of course, the same could be said for Jim Bowden.

This is the same guy who turned Placido Polanco and Bud Smith into Scott Rolen. Rolen had more of an impact than either of the two mentioned while wearing Cardinal red.

People are quick to give Krivsky credit for the farm development, but a lot of that credit should go to the scouting department and development staff. If anything, Krivsky's two first round picks, Drew Stubbs and Devin Mesorasco, have yet to prove anything in the minors.

Only problem is, Jocketty really isn't much better when it comes to minor league development. This is Jim Bowden without the leather pants.

IMO, this is a move that was made to signal the Reds into mid-market territory. Couple this with Dusty Baker and it shows the Reds are willing to spend money to get recognizable baseball people into the organization. If the atmosphere can change, there will be an opportunity to gain some veteran players who might consider meshing with the young talent we have.

At the same time, both of the moves could very easily backfire.

[GAC]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

Wow, this is great news.

Even if you loved Wayne, you've got to love the fact that Cast is not complacent and will not accept mediocrity. This is great.

Wayne certianly wasn't the worse GM we had. He brought in some talent. His supporters have a good point there, but he also made many mistakes.

I'm so pumped about having Jocketty take over. This is the most optimisitc I've been about this club in a LONG time.

Way to kick some booty Cast. It's great having an owner that wants to win, instead of being on the perpetual 5 year plan.

Who is gonna kick Cast's booty? As far as I'm concerned, as the owner, he is solely responsible for this situation. So why is he getting a free pass as if all this is WK's fault?

He HIRED Krivsky
Dusty Baker was Bob's choice, not WK's.
Bob had nothing to do, no involvement (giving his OK) to even those bad deals/trades that turned awry?

I'm not saying the GM doesn't carry any culpibility. Wayne certainly does. And there are probably several sound reasons to justify his firing. The timing really sucked. Totally classless of this owner who sites his impatience as the sole reason IMO. But I'm also tired of an owner who keeps saying he's tired of losing, want's to win now (which seems to appease some), and as far as I'm concerned is the main culprit.

Ya gotta have your scapegoat I guess.

We all pretty much knew that when Jocketty was brought in as a "special advisor" that Wayne's days were numbered.

They hired a BIG NAME manager, and now have their BIG NAME GM. I'm really impressed.

Symbolism over substance as far as I'm concerned.

There were sound reasons as to why these two were FIRED from their previous jobs. They had no farm system in St. Louis, and Jocketty acknowledges that this is an area where he has no expertise, and is a weakness. Yes, that is a concern for me. He's the type of guy that, IMHO, will trade away any future we have, even if it is a Jay Bruce, as long as it mets Bob C's vision of WIN NOW.

Thank God I didn't buy any ticket packages this year. I have a feeling it's gonna get ugly.

I wonder how much impatience Bob will have with the "Walt and Dusty Show"?

[Falls City Beer]

I don't think the "core" of this team is very good. If this team is going to be a postseason team, Walt Jocketty's going to have to make some very big changes to get them there, and as a result, will likely lay claim to bigger chunk of the credit.

But I think it's entirely possible that even Jocketty can't get this team to where they want to go. And I certainly don't think it's at all a given that Krivsky was on the winning track.

[reds44]

Originally Posted by GAC

Dusty Baker was Bob's choice, not WK's.

Nothing Krivsky said today even hinted at this being fact.

[KronoRed]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Sure wouldn't want a demanding owner, would we?

Demanding is one thing, unrealistically insane is quite another.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by KronoRed

Demanding is one thing, unrealistically insane is quite another.

Wayne wasn't taking this team to the postseason. All the other stuff is details.

[reds44]

Originally Posted by KronoRed

Demanding is one thing, unrealistically insane is quite another.

It depends how much money he is willing to dish out.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by jojo

Walt's got the credibility to sustain losing. Krivsky isn't "proven".

I think this philosophy will color a lot of personnel moves in the future.

Maybe the farm will be leveraged.

Perhaps. But they may feel Bruce's production could replace Dunn's and with the bonus that he's young and cheap and plays better defense. Walt may go to Bob and say, "Bob, I'd like to sign Dunn to a multi-year deal for big, big money." Bob says, "Geez, Walt, I like the guy but that's a lot of money. We all liked Bronson too but look how that went."

[Caveat Emperor]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

I don't think the "core" of this team is very good. If this team is going to be a postseason team, Walt Jocketty's going to have to make some very big changes to get them there, and as a result, will likely lay claim to bigger chunk of the credit.

The majority of what this team needs is already in this team's system.

Jay Bruce replacing KGJ, Homer Bailey entering the rotation, Bill Bray and a few of the AA relievers joining the bullpen. They might not help change fates in 2008, but after a year of experience at the start of '09....

This team is close. I say that, and I don't consider myself a homer in any way.

[GAC]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

And only one of those guys was acquired by Krivksy--in the only slam-dunk deal he made in his two years here.

That is a purely ridiculous assertion on your part.

[MattyHo4Life]

I don't understand this move at all. Personally, I hope the Cards sign Krivsky ;-)

I liked Jocketty as the Cards GM, but it was time for him to go. I don't see how he can be effective in Cincinnati unless the Reds ownership are prepared to open up their wallets. I red an article on the Reds website about the move stating that Krivsky's biggest mistake was trading Kearns and Lopez. Well, compare that to Jocketty trading Dan Haren, Daric Barton, and Kiko Calero for Mark Mulder. I thought Jocketty did a good job in St. Louis until that trade. IMO, that trade was the begining of the end for Jocketty in St. Louis. Imagine if he would make a comparable trade like that as Reds GM. Krivsky has signed several players that I would have loved to have as Cardinals, and he signed them cheap. Jocketty hands out big contracts when he signs/trades for players. I don't see how that philosophy will work for the Reds.

[reds44]

Originally Posted by MattyMo4Life

I don't understand this move at all. Personally, I hope the Cards sign Krivsky ;-)

I liked Jocketty as the Cards GM, but it was time for him to go. I don't see how he can be effective in Cincinnati unless the Reds ownership are prepared to open up their wallets. I red an article on the Reds website about the move stating that Krivsky's biggest mistake was trading Kearns and Lopez. Well, compare that to Jocketty trading Dan Haren, Daric Barton, and Kiko Calero for Mark Mulder. I thought Jocketty did a good job in St. Louis until that trade. IMO, that trade was the begining of the end for Jocketty in St. Louis. Imagine if he would make a comparable trade like that as Reds GM. Krivsky has signed several players that I would have loved to have as Cardinals, and he signed them cheap. Jocketty hands out big contracts when he signs/trades for players. I don't see how that philosophy will work for the Reds.

Who?

Josh Fogg over Kyle Loshe was a blunder as well, especially with the way Arroyo is pitching.