Ted Power on Homer

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by NorrisHopper30

The most important stat to me about him last night was he had 7 strikeouts, which definitely means that he's gotten his strikeout pitch back. Keep him in AAA for at least a month - I need to see a few more starts like this and show that he has a finishing pitch.

Sorry to be negative Norris, but 7 strikeouts in 8 AAA innings just isn't that stupendous. Bailey has averaged about 7 per nine. The zero walks are a good sign, but since he gave up 10 hits Bailey might have been "pitching to contact" to avoid walks.

The positive from last night, frankly, is that Homer didn't get bombed after his experience with the Reds which shows that he's hanging tough and trying to work things out. But I wouldn't get overly excited about last night's numbers.

Still wonder what the problem is. Is he hurt or overrated or is he just not ready and still learning. We all hope it is number three.

[kfm]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Why would Ted Power lie about Bailey's pitch speed?

I am not saying that he would lie about his pitch speed, but sometimes these guys memories are not the best, and I was hoping that someone on the board could have seen him pitch and expand on Powrer's comments. I just wanted some confirmation before getting too giddy about Homer's velocity coming back at the same time that he has command of his pitches. I know many posters on this board just love to attack people but the last thing I was doing was calling Ted Power a liar.

[NeilHamburger]

I think Ted Power is a liar, no way Bailey was hitting 97 on the gun. I've heard about all the BS over Bailey hitting 97-98 with his fastball that I can take. I don't believe he's ever hit that, he hasn't hit it in Cincy (and hasn't come closer then 94) since his first start against cleveland. I'd like to know what magic beans Pole gave to bailey to get him throwing consistantly 95-96 and occasionally 97, when just last week he was throwing 89-91 straight as an arrow.

From the time he was drafted I think we've been lied to about Bailey by people in this organization.


My theory on the real story is this, Bailey was drafted right out of high school throwing 91-93. He came into the system throwing that, the reds projected as he got older and stronger he'd pick up a few mph on his fastball, and when he eventually debuted he would be throwing 95 consistantly, hitting 97 occasionally. So all that talk a few years ago about him throwing 97 was actually just to build him up for his debut, when they felt he could actually hit that number. Unfortunately, he hasn't picked up anything yet. I think that 97 mph fastball was all projection, and was never real.

[LoganBuck]

Originally Posted by NeilHamburger

I think Ted Power is a liar, no way Bailey was hitting 97 on the gun. I've heard about all the BS over Bailey hitting 97-98 with his fastball that I can take. I don't believe he's ever hit that, he hasn't hit it in Cincy (and hasn't come closer then 94) since his first start against cleveland. I'd like to know what magic beans Pole gave to bailey to get him throwing consistantly 95-96 and occasionally 97, when just last week he was throwing 89-91 straight as an arrow.

From the time he was drafted I think we've been lied to about Bailey by people in this organization.


My theory on the real story is this, Bailey was drafted right out of high school throwing 91-93. He came into the system throwing that, the reds projected as he got older and stronger he'd pick up a few mph on his fastball, and when he eventually debuted he would be throwing 95 consistantly, hitting 97 occasionally. So all that talk a few years ago about him throwing 97 was actually just to build him up for his debut, when they felt he could actually hit that number. Unfortunately, he hasn't picked up anything yet. I think that 97 mph fastball was all projection, and was never real.

Nope. We saw him doing it last year.

Put your tinfoil cap back on.

[kfm]

Originally Posted by NeilHamburger

I think Ted Power is a liar, no way Bailey was hitting 97 on the gun. I've heard about all the BS over Bailey hitting 97-98 with his fastball that I can take. I don't believe he's ever hit that, he hasn't hit it in Cincy (and hasn't come closer then 94) since his first start against cleveland. I'd like to know what magic beans Pole gave to bailey to get him throwing consistantly 95-96 and occasionally 97, when just last week he was throwing 89-91 straight as an arrow.

From the time he was drafted I think we've been lied to about Bailey by people in this organization.


My theory on the real story is this, Bailey was drafted right out of high school throwing 91-93. He came into the system throwing that, the reds projected as he got older and stronger he'd pick up a few mph on his fastball, and when he eventually debuted he would be throwing 95 consistantly, hitting 97 occasionally. So all that talk a few years ago about him throwing 97 was actually just to build him up for his debut, when they felt he could actually hit that number. Unfortunately, he hasn't picked up anything yet. I think that 97 mph fastball was all projection, and was never real.

My memory is not the best, but I am pretty certain that last year against the A's he was 94 to 96 consistently. Anyone else remember that. BTW, I just find it hard to believe that an entire organization would just decide to say that a kid was throwing harder than he was capable of. I mean it's not like they play games where no one can watch or there are no reports.

[guttle11]

What would be to gain by lying about a kid's velocity? It's not like people wouldn't figure it out in short order once attention was paid.

From my untrained eye, Homer's stride looks a lot longer than it did when he pitched at Dayton. He's throwing flat instead of with a downward motion. That can cost you a MPH or 2 instantly. Maybe that is what they're working on?

[NeilHamburger]

I'll believe it when I see it. And, I just think they were building him up from the start, thinking by the time he got here he'd be throwing harder.

As for what's to gain by lying. Well, every organization builds up their upcoming prospects (and probably tells a few fibs) to build fan interest and hope. I really don't think that's a big secret, you could probably call it the Jim "willie greene" Bowden effect.

[guttle11]

Originally Posted by NeilHamburger

As for what's to gain by lying. Well, every organization builds up their upcoming prospects (and probably tells a few fibs) to build fan interest and hope. I really don't think that's a big secret, you could probably call it the Jim "willie greene" Bowden effect.

That's something people with no business acumen do as a short term facade. The Reds FO since Bailey has been a pro has many, many faults. Lack of business acumen is not something I'd put on that list.

[NeilHamburger]

Ugh, they still are full of hype. Annointing Jay Bruce as the greatest player that we'll ever see come from the farm system is funny to me (who said that, i think it was sabo). I have no doubt he'll be a fine or great player, but I'm extremely cynical when it comes to what I hear about organizations prospects.

I still think every organization hypes their prospects so much that I don't believe anything until I see it.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by NeilHamburger

I'll believe it when I see it. And, I just think they were building him up from the start, thinking by the time he got here he'd be throwing harder.

As for what's to gain by lying. Well, every organization builds up their upcoming prospects (and probably tells a few fibs) to build fan interest and hope. I really don't think that's a big secret, you could probably call it the Jim "willie greene" Bowden effect.

Not true NH, I don't blame you for being skeptical if you haven't seen it. However I did see him throwing 96-98 consistently in the futures game he was in back in '07. I bumped the thread up so people could read it from front to back, there was plenty of us who saw it.

[guttle11]

Originally Posted by NeilHamburger

Ugh, they still are full of hype. Annointing Jay Bruce as the greatest player that we'll ever see come from the farm system is funny to me (who said that, i think it was sabo). I have no doubt he'll be a fine or great player, but I'm extremely cynical when it comes to what I hear about organizations prospects.

I still think every organization hypes their prospects so much that I don't believe anything until I see it.

Hyping someone and lying are two different animals.

[NeilHamburger]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

Not true NH, I don't blame you for being skeptical if you haven't seen it. However I did see him throwing 96-98 consistently in the futures game he was in back in '07. I bumped the thread up so people could read it from front to back, there was plenty of us who saw it.

If he was throwing that according to major league guns it boggles the mind how you could take a 20-year-old throwing 98 and turn him into a 22-year-old throwing 90. He's had no major arm troubles, and outside of the groin I don't think has had any major injuries. He should be getting stronger and in theory working with better pitching coaches and baseball people every step of the way. I mean who do we have in our system training people? Are there just trained monkey's down there? If true it's just disgraceful what our coaches and the people in the reds system are doing.

[kfm]

Originally Posted by NeilHamburger

I'll believe it when I see it. And, I just think they were building him up from the start, thinking by the time he got here he'd be throwing harder.

As for what's to gain by lying. Well, every organization builds up their upcoming prospects (and probably tells a few fibs) to build fan interest and hope. I really don't think that's a big secret, you could probably call it the Jim "willie greene" Bowden effect.

There is a huge difference in talking about what you think a guy will be able to do when he reaches his potential which is what every organization does and just flat lying about what a guy is doing right now. I don't ever want to be put in a position to defend leatherpants and I am mad at you for doing this to me. However, Bowden was wrong about his projections of Willie Greene as he was wrong on his projections of many other players. What you are arguing is like a team saying a guy has 10 homeruns when he only has 5. I don't think that is very common. ALso, consider the fact that it is not just the REds organaization who has reports on guys.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by NeilHamburger

If he was throwing that according to major league guns it boggles the mind how you could take a 20-year-old throwing 98 and turn him into a 22-year-old throwing 90. He's had no major arm troubles, and outside of the groin I don't think has had any major injuries. He should be getting stronger and in theory working with better pitching coaches and baseball people every step of the way. I mean who do we have in our system training people? Are there just trained monkey's down there? If true it's just disgraceful what our coaches and the people in the reds system are doing.

Well I won't debate the coaching issue, I have my own issues trusting them myself. I ain't saying they suck because I couldn't prove it, but I wouldn't be the one to grade them high.

[NeilHamburger]

Originally Posted by kfm

There is a huge difference in talking about what you think a guy will be able to do when he reaches his potential which is what every organization does and just flat lying about what a guy is doing right now. I don't ever want to be put in a position to defend leatherpants and I am mad at you for doing this to me. However, Bowden was wrong about his projections of Willie Greene as he was wrong on his projections of many other players. What you are arguing is like a team saying a guy has 10 homeruns when he only has 5. I don't think that is very common. ALso, consider the fact that it is not just the REds organaization who has reports on guys.

So you're saying a team doesn't add a few mph's to add some excitement if they think he'll reach it soon? MPH on a fastball isn't like K's or wins, it's tough in the minors with guns and all, and it really depends on whether a pitcher has his good stuff. I'm not sure if Bowden lied when he said Willie Greene had badspeed like Bonds or was it Sheffield, because like MPH, it's tougher to determine on a consistent basis.

All of this said, if you guys saw him in the futures game throwing 98 consistantly I believe that (I believe it more than if a reds scout said it after watching him pitch in AA). That is why I'm skeptical of Ted Power, I'd be more likely to believe someone posting on this board with a jugs gun then ted power or rick sweet or anyone affliated with cincy.