Ted Power on Homer

[Blue]

Originally Posted by NeilHamburger

I'll believe it when I see it. And, I just think they were building him up from the start, thinking by the time he got here he'd be throwing harder.

As for what's to gain by lying. Well, every organization builds up their upcoming prospects (and probably tells a few fibs) to build fan interest and hope. I really don't think that's a big secret, you could probably call it the Jim "willie greene" Bowden effect.

You should have paid closer attention when he was with the club last year after his groin injury and before his mechanical changes.

[dougdirt]

Neilhamburger.... frankly put, you don't know what you are talking about. The Reds aren't and weren't the only people claiming Bailey threw that hard. Many people saw it on hundreds of different radar guns. The Reds have tinkered with his mechanics more times than I can count over the last year and a half and it has resulted in a whole bunch of ineffectiveness.

[NeilHamburger]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Neilhamburger.... frankly put, you don't know what you are talking about. The Reds aren't and weren't the only people claiming Bailey threw that hard. Many people saw it on hundreds of different radar guns. The Reds have tinkered with his mechanics more times than I can count over the last year and a half and it has resulted in a whole bunch of ineffectiveness.

That's fine, there is another possibility I should have mentioned, the people in the reds system are complete morons who took a 19-year-old dominating people with an exposive 98 mph fastball and turned him into a 22 year old with a 90 mph fastball who gets hit around. Makes you feel real good about the people in the reds system. Reds pitching drafting moto: If the injuries don't get you, the coaches and trainers will.


Thank god that Volquez was traded for and not developed here, he'd probably be throwing in the mid-80s by now. Also, I guess Cueto should praise the lord that Soto is helping him this year, as whenever Soto leaves and Pole and the rest of the reds pitching geniuses take over he starts taking a dive.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by NeilHamburger

That's fine, there is another possibility I should have mentioned, the people in the reds system are complete morons who took a 19-year-old dominating people with an exposive 98 mph fastball and turned him into a 22 year old with a 90 mph fastball who gets hit around. Makes you feel real good about the people in the reds system. Reds pitching drafting moto: If the injuries don't get you, the coaches and trainers will.

Well while I think they have messed him up, he still was throwing 94 in the majors at times this year.

[kfm]

Originally Posted by NeilHamburger

That's fine, there is another possibility I should have mentioned, the people in the reds system are complete morons who took a 19-year-old dominating people with an exposive 98 mph fastball and turned him into a 22 year old with a 90 mph fastball who gets hit around. Makes you feel real good about the people in the reds system. Reds pitching drafting moto: If the injuries don't get you, the coaches and trainers will.

I think as Doug mentioned, they have changed his mechanics countless number of times in order to improve his command, and so far what he has turned into is not what any of us would have liked. Having said that, if they finally have a way to improve his command and not sacrifice his velocity I think we would all be happy. Having said that, it was one start but it is better than nothing.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by kfm

I think as Doug mentioned, they have changed his mechanics countless number of times in order to improve his command, and so far what he has turned into is not what any of us would have liked. Having said that, if they finally have a way to improve his command and not sacrifice his velocity I think we would all be happy. Having said that, it was one start but it is better than nothing.

I agree, but if he cannot improve his command well enough to get big league hitters out w/o losing velocity then I would rather him throw low 90's with good command than the alternative. I also won't blame it all on the staff(s), some of it is likely Homer and also some could just be what it is a guy who needs to bring down the velocity to be a real pitcher.

[dougdirt]

I just went back and watched 2 innings of Bailey's start yesterday. His fastball had some decent tailing action to it.... something I haven't seen from him in about 2 years. I don't have the time to watch the entire game right now, but it was promising to see that.

[NeilHamburger]

Originally Posted by kfm

I think as Doug mentioned, they have changed his mechanics countless number of times in order to improve his command, and so far what he has turned into is not what any of us would have liked. Having said that, if they finally have a way to improve his command and not sacrifice his velocity I think we would all be happy. Having said that, it was one start but it is better than nothing.

My thing is this, he really needs high velocity on his fastball as everytime he pitches Welsh points out how straight his ball is, how it is like an arrow. Shouldn't someone in the organization realize that after a few starts with decreased velocity and a straight fastball that maybe they're not really doing things correctly. I just wonder if he had been drafted by say the Diamondbacks, if he would be pitching in the bigs right now with a 97 mph fastball and a tighter curve due to the coaching he received in the minors.

Instead, his motion apparantly gets changed every year, his value as a commodity is decreased, and there are serious questions now whether or not he'll be able to live up to the hype.

[ChatterRed]

Originally Posted by TRF

or unfairly praise them.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by Kc61

Sorry to be negative Norris, but 7 strikeouts in 8 AAA innings just isn't that stupendous. Bailey has averaged about 7 per nine. The zero walks are a good sign, but since he gave up 10 hits Bailey might have been "pitching to contact" to avoid walks.

If he was indeed "pitching to contact" to avoid walks, he wouldn't have 7 K's in 8 innings.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by NeilHamburger

Ugh, they still are full of hype. Annointing Jay Bruce as the greatest player that we'll ever see come from the farm system is funny to me (who said that, i think it was sabo). I have no doubt he'll be a fine or great player, but I'm extremely cynical when it comes to what I hear about organizations prospects.

I still think every organization hypes their prospects so much that I don't believe anything until I see it.

This may be the most crazy thing I've ever read on this board. So the Reds lied about his velocity when fans in parks all over the minor leagues were watching him pitch, the futures games, the all star games, opposing scouts all watching and no one caught on. Yeah, that's realistic.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by NeilHamburger

That's fine, there is another possibility I should have mentioned, the people in the reds system are complete morons who took a 19-year-old dominating people with an exposive 98 mph fastball and turned him into a 22 year old with a 90 mph fastball who gets hit around. Makes you feel real good about the people in the reds system. Reds pitching drafting moto: If the injuries don't get you, the coaches and trainers will.

Now this I believe. Lets hope from last night's report that they have undone some of the damage they caused.

22 is still pretty young. Homer will still be a good pitcher in the future IMO. Right now was not the time. If he hasn't found it by 2010, then worry.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by NeilHamburger

So you're saying a team doesn't add a few mph's to add some excitement if they think he'll reach it soon? MPH on a fastball isn't like K's or wins, it's tough in the minors with guns and all, and it really depends on whether a pitcher has his good stuff. I'm not sure if Bowden lied when he said Willie Greene had badspeed like Bonds or was it Sheffield, because like MPH, it's tougher to determine on a consistent basis.

All of this said, if you guys saw him in the futures game throwing 98 consistantly I believe that (I believe it more than if a reds scout said it after watching him pitch in AA). That is why I'm skeptical of Ted Power, I'd be more likely to believe someone posting on this board with a jugs gun then ted power or rick sweet or anyone affliated with cincy.

That would be a really good way to get fired if the minor league folk did what you accused them of. The people in Cincinnati can't be at those games so they have to trust their people in the minors to give them accurate reports. What good does it do Power and Sweet to report to the Reds that Homer's throwing 97 when he's barely cracking 90? Eventally they are going to find out he's not throwing as hard as they said he was and they are going to demand an explanation. Then they are going to have to find different jobs because if they did that, no one in baseball would hire them.

Do teams hype their prospects? Of course they do. You know who would hype young players almost to a fault? None other than HOF manager Sparky Anderson. Some kid would make a terrific play or have a great hitting day and Sparky would say this kid's the Second Coming and compare him to some past or present great player. He may have erred in his evaluation but that's far from lying.