Josh Hamilton confirms tensions in the Reds clubhouse...

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by OldXOhio

I know it's a sidebar to the story, but I think this is the point that sticks out the most for me. It's understood that JH could fall back into past habits in short order, but I didn't realize it was to the point that he required attention 24/7 like this.

But it's not clear if this was Josh's own choice or a choice imposed upon him.

Maybe when he first started on the way back, the Reds (or whoever) said he could only carry $20.. Maybe since that worked out so well, Josh chooses to do it on his own free will. This could apply to some other stuff too. Maybe Josh is so scared that he will relapse that he wants these extreme measures. It looks like Josh's life is very structured now. Perhaps he likes that (some people do). Maybe if Narron was cut loose, he'd stay clean, or maybe not.. Looks like Josh doesn't want to risk it.

[KittyDuran]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

But it's not clear if this was Josh's own choice or a choice imposed upon him.

Maybe when he first started on the way back, the Reds (or whoever) said he could only carry $20.. Maybe since that worked out so well, Josh chooses to do it on his own free will. This could apply to some other stuff too. Maybe Josh is so scared that he will relapse that he wants these extreme measures. It looks like Josh's life is very structured now. Perhaps he likes that (some people do). Maybe if Narron was cut loose, he'd stay clean, or maybe not.. Looks like Josh doesn't want to risk it.

I can't find the story... but before the Reds got him, his wife would carry the money (per the story, he didn't have the $1 to pay the toll to go over the Sunshine Bridge in Tampa).

[LoganBuck]

Originally Posted by KronoRed

From what I can recall Hamilton got clean and ended up back in addiction more then once before this time around, he may just take every precaution he can.

There was a story of him getting clean and then he and his wife went out to celebrate a birthday (his or hers) and he ended up drinking and met up with some people and he did some dumb stuff (busting out a truck windshield?) and fell off the wagon.

He was on the All Star Selection show talking about how tempted he is to have a drink, and he talked about how he would be a hypocrite to his faith and fans, if he did it. I don't know how he is in person but I could see how that could get old. He is essentially Harvey Dent.

[Cedric]

Originally Posted by LoganBuck

There was a story of him getting clean and then he and his wife went out to celebrate a birthday (his or hers) and he ended up drinking and met up with some people and he did some dumb stuff (busting out a truck windshield?) and fell off the wagon.

He was on the All Star Selection show talking about how tempted he is to have a drink, and he talked about how he would be a hypocrite to his faith and fans, if he did it. I don't know how he is in person but I could see how that could get old. He is essentially Harvey Dent.

I dunno. I prefer to blame Brandon Phillips. He hits into too many DP's, doesn't walk, and actually plays good defense.

That alone makes him the person to blame.

[CTA513]

I blame Josh.

[Cedric]

Originally Posted by CTA513

I blame Josh.

Why? He is a prototype "Rick" player. The "Rick" player has no flaws either personally or professionally. Honestly what is worth? Being an addict or swinging at a few bad pitches? I say the latter.

[Dom Heffner]

Hamilton's demons are the only reason I could justify trading him.

[The Baumer]

A recovering addict has no shame. He'll use any excuse or avenue or risk anything to feed his addiction. There is no logic involved or room for "just being cool" about it.

My father is/was a recovering alcoholic and I've seen him go to neighbor's kids' birthday parties, un-invited just so he could drink. He's called in sick to work and made up bogus injury excuses (and sadly, there are doctors out there who enable this sort of behavior) just so he could skip work. Once a couple of my friends were going to watch a baseball game at a restaurant/pub and he invited himself along, I thought what was the harm? Why make a stink? I should just "be cool about it" and let him come. Rational thinking says he wouldn't do anything in front of my friends. Anyway, end of the night comes and 2 hours after my dad had "gone to use the restroom" and never came back, I walked to the front of the restaurant and saw him drinking there with some strangers. He told me they were his friends from high school and that he was going to get a ride home with them, and for me to go home with my friends. He came home that night wasted and barely able to walk. I have no idea how he was able to get to work the next morning.

There is no doubt in my mind that if Josh Hamilton was in any situation where alcohol, drugs, sex, or any of those vices were available, he would stop at nothing to get them. It isn't a matter of "manning up" and being accountable for himself, the days where he might have been able to do that are long gone. People who say he needs to "just be cool" and go have fun with his teammates and just avoid the drink have no idea about addictions or they are super humans who we should all aspire to be as strong as.

[Highlifeman21]

Maybe Josh was just upset with the lack of nightlife in Cincinnati.

Sure, Mt. Adams with Bronson Arroyo sounds like fun, but that gets old after the umpteenth time...

Hey Josh, did you ever think that your teammates didn't invite you out b/c there's absolutely squadoosh to do in Cincinnati?

On the other hand, there is stuff to do across the river... there goes that theory....

Or maybe Josh's teammates didn't want to be the one that helped contribute to him falling off the wagon?

Regardless, I wish Hammy the best, but the odds are against him. I'm glad we got Volquez for him, and I don't 2nd guess that for a minute.

[durl]

It wouldn't surprise me if some Reds didn't know how to treat Hamilton so they just kept their distance emotionally. Not the best approach, IMO, but some guys have a hard time reaching out to someone who's experienced rough times. Hamilton needed special attention, but I have no problem whatsoever with the high level of assistance he's received. The man wanted to overcome serious addictions that many of us will never be able to comprehend. If some players got jealous of how he was protected, that's their problem, not Hamilton's. Heck, a lot of young players in professional sports could use mentors to keep them in line.

I wouldn't think Hamilton's faith would be a big issue. Well, it shouldn't be. I would think that most players wear their various lifestyles on their sleeves and expect their teammates to accept them.

Honestly, isn't Hamilton's story something we all can relate to at it's most basic level? A man who hit bottom but got a chance to live out his dream, to provide well for his family, and perhaps show his family that their faith in him was not misplaced. He rewarded their patience well. I wish him continued success.

[guttle11]

Originally Posted by durl

It wouldn't surprise me if some Reds didn't know how to treat Hamilton so they just kept their distance emotionally. Not the best approach, IMO, but some guys have a hard time reaching out to someone who's experienced rough times. Hamilton needed special attention, but I have no problem whatsoever with the high level of assistance he's received. The man wanted to overcome serious addictions that many of us will never be able to comprehend. If some players got jealous of how he was protected, that's their problem, not Hamilton's. Heck, a lot of young players in professional sports could use mentors to keep them in line.

I wouldn't think Hamilton's faith would be a big issue. Well, it shouldn't be. I would think that most players wear their various lifestyles on their sleeves and expect their teammates to accept them.

Honestly, isn't Hamilton's story something we all can relate to at it's most basic level? A man who hit bottom but got a chance to live out his dream, to provide well for his family, and perhaps show his family that their faith in him was not misplaced. He rewarded their patience well. I wish him continued success.

I don't think it's as simple as them not relating to a guy that doesn't go out for dinner and a few beers, or the presence of Johnny Narron.

Josh Hamilton is a strong personality. He has said on numerous occasions that he believes he's on a "mission". He talks about himself an awful lot. Like it or not, that type of talk rubs a lot of people the wrong way. I can see how some people would take that as Josh thinking he's above the team, even if that couldn't be further from the truth in reality. It's not all that different from a guy wearing "bling" and referring to himself in various persons.

I think what we have hear is a miscommunication on both ends. That's ok. It seems to have worked out well for both sides, which is great.

[red-in-la]

Originally Posted by The Baumer

A recovering addict has no shame. He'll use any excuse or avenue or risk anything to feed his addiction. There is no logic involved or room for "just being cool" about it.

My father is/was a recovering alcoholic and I've seen him go to neighbor's kids' birthday parties, un-invited just so he could drink. He's called in sick to work and made up bogus injury excuses (and sadly, there are doctors out there who enable this sort of behavior) just so he could skip work. Once a couple of my friends were going to watch a baseball game at a restaurant/pub and he invited himself along, I thought what was the harm? Why make a stink? I should just "be cool about it" and let him come. Rational thinking says he wouldn't do anything in front of my friends. Anyway, end of the night comes and 2 hours after my dad had "gone to use the restroom" and never came back, I walked to the front of the restaurant and saw him drinking there with some strangers. He told me they were his friends from high school and that he was going to get a ride home with them, and for me to go home with my friends. He came home that night wasted and barely able to walk. I have no idea how he was able to get to work the next morning.

There is no doubt in my mind that if Josh Hamilton was in any situation where alcohol, drugs, sex, or any of those vices were available, he would stop at nothing to get them. It isn't a matter of "manning up" and being accountable for himself, the days where he might have been able to do that are long gone. People who say he needs to "just be cool" and go have fun with his teammates and just avoid the drink have no idea about addictions or they are super humans who we should all aspire to be as strong as.

Sorry Baumer, addiction is terrible for everybody, especially a son.....but there are recovering alcholics sitting in bars drinking ice water.

Your Dad and my brother-in-law didn't get over it, but there are many, many people who do beat it.

[Cedric]

Originally Posted by durl

It wouldn't surprise me if some Reds didn't know how to treat Hamilton so they just kept their distance emotionally. Not the best approach, IMO, but some guys have a hard time reaching out to someone who's experienced rough times. Hamilton needed special attention, but I have no problem whatsoever with the high level of assistance he's received. The man wanted to overcome serious addictions that many of us will never be able to comprehend. If some players got jealous of how he was protected, that's their problem, not Hamilton's. Heck, a lot of young players in professional sports could use mentors to keep them in line.

I wouldn't think Hamilton's faith would be a big issue. Well, it shouldn't be. I would think that most players wear their various lifestyles on their sleeves and expect their teammates to accept them.

Honestly, isn't Hamilton's story something we all can relate to at it's most basic level? A man who hit bottom but got a chance to live out his dream, to provide well for his family, and perhaps show his family that their faith in him was not misplaced. He rewarded their patience well. I wish him continued success.

It wouldn't surprise me if Josh Hamilton is also a bit immature as well. I'm NOT saying that he is, just saying that I wouldn't be shocked if that was some of the problem in dealing with other players on the team. After watching some of his interviews you can see that he was a bit naive to the way baseball players expect others to act. I commend Josh for speaking about his addictions and being so honest about his problems. But it's somewhat code in the clubhouse to speak little about your private life and you have to earn the right to get the ovations/interview requests that Josh got. We all know how veterans act when a rookie gets out of hand in celebrating (Milledge). I think it's likely that many of these veterans were resentful of Josh. The fact that Josh Hamilton got a standing ovation in his first game was possibly odd to most of the players. With a roster of 25 changing players you are probably going to see some players that didn't understand the ovation. To me the whole treatment Josh Hamilton gets surprises me, but not necessarily in a negative way. I just don't like the way some people frame him as a hero. Just my two cents.

Also you have to realize that baseball players aren't always living in the real world. Some of these guys have been spoiled their whole life and have no empathy for someone like Josh. They might have seen him as someone trying to con the public with his public persona. Honestly none of us know how Josh is in day to day life. Maybe some players just cringed or rolled their eyes when he rambled about Church everyday. Maybe they were jealous or maybe they know something about Josh that we don't.? Guess it really doesn't matter.

[WVRedsFan]

Originally Posted by red-in-la

Sorry Baumer, addiction is terrible for everybody, especially a son.....but there are recovering alcholics sitting in bars drinking ice water.

Your Dad and my brother-in-law didn't get over it, but there are many, many people who do beat it.

My best friend was like both of them. He used to drink Mad Dog and pass out for a passtime. He finally realized (at age 50) that time was short. If some of the guys want to go to a bar, he goes along and drinks non-aloholic beer and has a great time. He's sober and will continue to be because he wants to see his kids grow up, have grandkids and enjoy life. He doesn't wear his addiction on his sleeve nor does he credit any religious affiliation for his recovery (though I imagine it had something to do with it). He's still the same guy, but he's intelligent enough to know what he can and cannot do. He doesn't need a babysitter.

[VR]

Originally Posted by WVRedsFan

My best friend was like both of them. He used to drink Mad Dog and pass out for a passtime. He finally realized (at age 50) that time was short. If some of the guys want to go to a bar, he goes along and drinks non-aloholic beer and has a great time. He's sober and will continue to be because he wants to see his kids grow up, have grandkids and enjoy life. He doesn't wear his addiction on his sleeve nor does he credit any religious affiliation for his recovery (though I imagine it had something to do with it). He's still the same guy, but he's intelligent enough to know what he can and cannot do. He doesn't need a babysitter.

Ask any alcohol counselor about triggers for relapses. My guess is going to bars thinking you can go without risk is one of them. Perhaps even the top one.
I don't think Josh wears his addiction on his sleeve, he responds to the tremendous media demand for his story. But, I guess it sounds better to marginalize Josh as stupid and immature.