The hamilton Replacements struggling. (bruce&volquez)

[bgwilly31]

BRUCE> And volquez.


Ok lets start with volquez.

Ive been saying it for the longest time. I think volquez has been pitching unbelievably well. And im rooting for him endlessly. But I think a lot of fans are jumping the gun a little bit with him acting as if hes already an established super star. Give the league a little time to scout him out. And then make your decisions.

Well his last 3 starts have been far from dominant. Especially his last one against the flipping nationals. Now facing the brewers next at the brew crews place, i think will be his most important game of his career to date. If he can come out of that game with flying colors that would be huge for him. But if not I would say it might be the start of a trend.

Im not passing judgement on the guy over 3 bad starts. Just discussing.
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NOW FOR BRUCE>

Biggest dissapointment for me right now is bruce. I was never convinced of bruce from the start. His minor league numbers (strikeouts) had me scarred from the beginning. But then he came out on an act of god, as most redszone called it. And made me think twice. Well maybe this kid has made adjustments. He looked a lot like HAMILTON at the plate. Very patient. hit for contact and had power. Just all around studly.

But what in the world has happened to this kid. I think a lot of reds fans have been wearing beer goggles while watching this kid. Hes been looked terrible at the plate for a long while now. And seems to be getting worse.

It seems like every time hes up to the plate if the count even gets this far 3 pitches in its a 1-2 count. He's always hitting behind in the count. Because now he's all of the sudden swinging at everything. And usually missing or fouling it off. Somebody needs to grab this kid before this gets worse and Make him be patient at the plate at the very least. I dont care how big of a slump your in. The one thing you can change is how aggressive you are at the plate.



Dunn and griffey are bruces best friends on the team. This is my conspiracy theory for everyone to think about. Much like a new employee. A lot of the times they will work the hardest in the first few weeks. Until they start to realize after watching and befriending their co-workers. "Well hey i can get away with slacking on this, and this and that." Bruce came in a stud. Now he has completely done a 180 and looks like a completely opposite type player.

Imagine this.

Imagine for a second Bruce didnt come out into the league like "an act of god." Imagine bruce started and looked as he does right now. I think we all would be very worried right now if thats how the cookie crumbled. He looks god awful at the plate AB after AB after AB.

Bruce in the last 17 games. And it probably gets worse than this if you go back a little further.

12-65 AVG .185
27 strikeouts
only 3 yes 3walks

[BLEEDS]

Um, that "flippin" Nationals game was 6 innnings, 5 hits, and 3 ER's - otherwise known as a "QUALITY START".

He's had like 13 QS's out of his 18 starts this year, and the ones he didn't have were 5 or 5 1/3 innings of 0, 1, 1, and 3 ER's, and the ONE bad game was the Toronto game where he gave up 5 ER's in 4 1/3rd. To me, that's ONE bad game out of 18. We've got WAY more worries than our All-Star Pitcher.

Bruce may be one of them now that the Honeymoon is over and he's playing his role of struggling rookie - and the pitchers are adjusting to him. He's going to have to cut down on the K's for sure, otherwise he's going to make Adam Dunn look like a contact hitter... His OBP and SLG are WAY WAY WAY down as well, which even when Dunn is struggling, he still hits for power when he hits, and he still draws walks.

June was a HORRIBLE month for our offense in general, let's hope they ALL snap out of it.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

[Jim Fazio]

Again let me say I would have never made the deal for Volquez who will get 30-35 starts a yr and not have his good stuff in at least 10 of the starts for a guy with the talent of Hamilton. This trade will probably haunt the reds for a long time. Hope to be wrong!!

[Jim Fazio]

I bet Jacoby has gotten to Bruce and that is why he is slumpnig. Who is the batting coach at Louville?

[mroby85]

Originally Posted by Jim Fazio

Again let me say I would have never made the deal for Volquez who will get 30-35 starts a yr and not have his good stuff in at least 10 of the starts for a guy with the talent of Hamilton. This trade will probably haunt the reds for a long time. Hope to be wrong!!

you can't look at it like him only getting 30-35 starts, because once you get to the postseason pitching is what wins. you have a shortened series with 3 pitchers, and the best offense seldom wins, it's usually the team with the best pitching. See AZ when they had johnson and schilling.

I didn't like the trade when they made it, but now that volquez has proven to be a stud, i think it was a good trade. I'd always trade a position player for a good pitcher, even though i absolutely love hamilton.

To be honest, i'm not worried about bruce, he's only 21 years old, and he's going to have his struggles, you can tell he's a good hitter, just from watching him play. I think he'll be fine.

this is just all my opinion, so take it for what it's worth, but thats how i feel about it.

[keeganbrick]

wtf......end this thread plz

[bgwilly31]

Originally Posted by BLEEDS

Um, that "flippin" Nationals game was 6 innnings, 5 hits, and 3 ER's - otherwise known as a "QUALITY START".

He's had like 13 QS's out of his 18 starts this year, and the ones he didn't have were 5 or 5 1/3 innings of 0, 1, 1, and 3 ER's, and the ONE bad game was the Toronto game where he gave up 5 ER's in 4 1/3rd. To me, that's ONE bad game out of 18. We've got WAY more worries than our All-Star Pitcher.
-BLEEDS

Okay i agree with you on bruce.

But trying to say EV was himself VS the nationals is just BLIND Mr. bleeds.

EV's normal self according to earlier games he should have had a 1-2 hitter going into 6 innings and at least 8 SO's after 6IP VS a team like the nationals.

But instead we got
6IP
3 walks
And only 3 SO's against the nationals.

If you actually watched the game instead of looking at the headlines you would have noticed EV didnt have his stuff. It was obvious.

So for his 3rd start in a row. Even against arguably the worst team in the league. Next to us. He still couldnt dominate.

All-Star Edinson Volquez was not his usual solid self in the early going on Sunday, as he struggled with his control during a three-run Nats third.

As a matter of fact heres the opening sentence to games summary on reds.com

Originally Posted by mroby85

I didn't like the trade when they made it, but now that volquez has proven to be a stud, i think it was a good trade. I'd always trade a position player for a good pitcher, even though i absolutely love hamilton.

To be honest, i'm not worried about bruce, he's only 21 years old, and he's going to have his struggles, you can tell he's a good hitter, just from watching him play. I think he'll be fine.

this is just all my opinion, so take it for what it's worth, but thats how i feel about it.

2 parts of your opinion stuck out at me.


First I have to dissagree with you when you say EV is a PROVEN stud.

I think he is a full year away from being a proven stud in my books. Hes got stuff no doubt about it. But you must give the league sometime to "break" him. Some guys dont break. Some do. I dont think its been long enough yet to decide. Especially considering his last three starts.


2nd Thats exactly my point that Worries me so much about bruce. YOU CANT tell he can hit just by watching him.


Imagine this.

Imagine for a second Bruce didnt come out into the league like "an act of god." Imagine bruce started and looked as he does right now. I think we all would be very worried right now if thats how the cookie crumbled. He looks god awful at the plate AB after AB after AB.

CMON bruce.

[keeganbrick]

What is the point of this? If EV is taking 1 hitters into the 6th inning every game he would go down as the best pitcher in the history of the MLB. EV is not going to have an ERA below 2 for his career. He is still a great pitcher if he maintain a ERA of around 3. As for Bruce, he didnt just become a major league player becuase people thought he was good....He has been doing it his whole life on every level. Everyone goes through slumps, bad ABs, etc. He is 21 years old, playing at the highest level, still getting adjusted.

[bgwilly31]

Originally Posted by keeganbrick

wtf......end this thread plz

right.

Perfect example of a blind reds fan that obviously doesnt know the game.

Bruce in the last 17 games. And it probably gets worse than this if you go back a little further.

12-65 AVG .185
27 strikeouts
only 3 yes 3walks

[bgwilly31]

Originally Posted by keeganbrick

What is the point of this? If EV is taking 1 hitters into the 6th inning every game he would go down as the best pitcher in the history of the MLB. EV is not going to have an ERA below 2 for his career. He is still a great pitcher if he maintain a ERA of around 3. As for Bruce, he didnt just become a major league player becuase people thought he was good....He has been doing it his whole life on every level. Everyone goes through slumps, bad ABs, etc. He is 21 years old, playing at the highest level, still getting adjusted.

If your a proven stud. Im pretty sure AGAINST the nationals you should be able to have a good chance of a 1-2 hitter and 8k's against the worst team and worst scoring team in the entire MLB.

But nice way of twisting someones words.
Nobody said his era should be under 2 for his career either.My point is from these last 3 starts. He might be on the same path as Bruce right now. Falling from the clouds. Lets hope not.


As for bruce. Your right. Looking at his stats with AAA one might expect to see the kind of player were seeing right now. Maybe not this bad but close.

He was tied with A.DUNN in k's this year right before he came out of AAA> Difference was he was in AAA dunn was facing MLB pitchers. Not todd coffey.

[keeganbrick]

Do you know what slumps are....well they can get even worse for 21 yr old rookies who are trying to adjust. Dont start critisizing others when you are creating threads like this.

[bgwilly31]

Originally Posted by keeganbrick

Do you know what slumps are....well they can get even worse for 21 yr old rookies who are trying to adjust. Dont start critisizing others when you are creating threads like this.

i dont understand your post. dont critiCize when creating threads like this?
Whats that supposed to mean?

I know baseball so yes i no what slumps are.

If you actually watched the games and understood what you were watching you would understand that Bruce is not just going through a slump.

He's completely changed his style and approach to the game. He's gone from very patient to wanting to swing at the first pitch he thinks he can hit. Even if it bounces to him.

And from actually watching him he doesnt seem to be even trying to make adjustments.

Thats a little different from slumping.

[thatcoolguy_22]

Originally Posted by keeganbrick

wtf......end this thread plz

minus the wtf I concur.

Chalk it up to incredibly young players going through growing pains.

[RedsIn07]

Originally Posted by bgwilly31

Bruce in the last 17 games. And it probably gets worse than this if you go back a little further.

12-65 AVG .185
27 strikeouts
only 3 yes 3walks

B. Phillips in his last 19 Games has 3 walks.
J. Hairston in his last 19 has 5 walks.
E. Encarnacion in his last 19 has 6 walks.
J. Votto in his last 19 has 8 walks.

No one on this team aside from Dunn is both getting on base and producing power numbers at a good rate, and we're complaining about the 21 year old in his rookie season who only has 166 PA's? He'll learn, there will be hick ups and probably enough of them for us to doubt his talent/potential, but he'll learn.

[JWP]

Originally Posted by bgwilly31

If your a proven stud. Im pretty sure AGAINST the nationals you should be able to have a good chance of a 1-2 hitter and 8k's against the worst team and worst scoring team in the entire MLB.

This is honestly some of the most ridiculous stuff that I've ever read on this board.

Edinson Volquez is "struggling" because he is not routinely carrying 1-2 hitters through 7 innings against Major League offenses?

Seriously?

Just because he didn't completely obliterate the Nationals doesn't mean that he's "slumping." If 6 IP and 3 ER is your definition of "slumping," thank God Edinson Volquez is a Red. The Nationals offense is bad, yes, but it is still comprised of Major League hitters. Major League hitters, believe it or not, can swing the bat. Your expectations of what Volquez "should" be doing are ludicrous. Absolutely insane.

Originally Posted by bgwilly31

Nobody said his era should be under 2 for his career either.My point is from these last 3 starts. He might be on the same path as Bruce right now. Falling from the clouds. Lets hope not.

Volquez has been a league average pitcher over his last three starts. I don't think many people expected Volquez to be a league-average pitcher over the course of the entire season. He's not exactly "falling from the clouds" because his ERA has soared to the 2.40 range.

I do agree with you on Bruce, though.