Todays loss falls directly on - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

fewfirstchoice · 07-13-2008, 05:02 PM

Dusty Bakers shoulders.Dusty is showing why the Cubs and Giants got rid of him.His mind bogling lineups, his man love for Patterson, and terrible control of a pitching staff and this is just to mention a few of his weak points.I was rather excited when he was hired as the Reds manager but I now see why the fans of the Cubbies and Giants were happey when he got fired.Unless he changes his ways soon I dont expect the Reds to make the playoffs for at least 3 more years(length of his contract).

Blue · 07-13-2008, 05:07 PM

I don't know if the Reds won't make the playoffs while he is manager, but I do know that they will never be as good as they could be as long as he's in charge.

forfreelin04 · 07-13-2008, 05:08 PM

I figured someone would start a thread raining on the parade of going 3-3 on a road trip from arguably the 2 best teams in the NL. The Reds were destined to lose this game. I'm surprised they even made it a game to begin with. Should they have won? Probably! But, there's a plethora of other games where we should have lost (e.g. Friday night's game thanks to Brewer miscues)

I'm looking on the negative side due to the sheer fact that the Reds have poked their heads up again in the WC race. If they would have went 2-4 or 1-5 on this road trip, Walt's job is clear. Now they are holding on just enough to make him rethink his position as a total seller. This is not good if he decides to become a bit of a buyer and trade someone like an EdE or Votto at the deadline for some hitting or pitching.

keeganbrick · 07-13-2008, 05:12 PM

EDE and Votto??? Those two are both untouchable from Walt's perspective. I would be amazed if either of those two are gone.

Blue · 07-13-2008, 05:12 PM

That they win some games due to physical and mental errors on the part of the other team has nothing to do with the fact that they lost this one due to managerial incompetence, and doesn't make that fact any less important.

RedsFanInBama · 07-13-2008, 05:13 PM

forfreelin04,

I didn't see the game, but if Baker made moves that hurt this team and its chances to win the game, that is a problem. Regardless of what the record was on this road trip.

dthomas24 · 07-13-2008, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forfreelin04

I figured someone would start a thread raining on the parade of going 3-3 on a road trip from arguably the 2 best teams in the NL. The Reds were destined to lose this game. I'm surprised they even made it a game to begin with. Should they have won? Probably! But, there's a plethora of other games where we should have lost (e.g. Friday night's game thanks to Brewer miscues)

I'm looking on the negative side due to the sheer fact that the Reds have poked their heads up again in the WC race. If they would have went 2-4 or 1-5 on this road trip, Walt's job is clear. Now they are holding on just enough to make him rethink his position as a total seller. This is not good if he decides to become a bit of a buyer and trade someone like an EdE or Votto at the deadline for some hitting or pitching.

That's baseball! You win some you should lose and you lose some you should win. I don't like the fact they went 3-3 on the road trip because they should have went 4-2 after today. Being satisfied with the 3-3 is the kind of attitude that will make you satisfied with a 82-80 season, a winning season. But what does that get this team? Nothing!!! Another year without the playoffs. Now did anyone expect them to go to the playoffs this year? No, but if they are going to make a run at the WC these are the games they have to win. We, or should I say the Reds, need to change their thinking. Don't be satisfied with a winning season, get to the playoffs!

I do agree with you here though. There is no clear cut direction on which way this team should go now. They should be sellers looking for next year, the year after, to really make a move for the ring but now there is that little glimmer of hope for this year.

Did I just contradict myself?

forfreelin04 · 07-13-2008, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dthomas24

That's baseball! You win some you should lose and you lose some you should win. I don't like the fact they went 3-3 on the road trip because they should have went 4-2 after today. Being satisfied with the 3-3 is the kind of attitude that will make you satisfied with a 82-80 season, a winning season. But what does that get this team? Nothing!!! Another year without the playoffs. Now did anyone expect them to go to the playoffs this year? No, but if they are going to make a run at the WC these are the games they have to win. We, or should I say the Reds, need to change their thinking. Don't be satisfied with a winning season, get to the playoffs!

I do agree with you here though. There is no clear cut direction on which way this team should go now. They should be sellers looking for next year, the year after, to really make a move for the ring but now there is that little glimmer of hope for this year.

Did I just contradict myself?

Haha! You did, but I agree with the contradiction.

People can call me whatever they want. But, the fact that the Reds are hanging in there makes it that much more difficult for WJ to trade some pieces away to build for the future. Ede and Votto might not be traded, but if we are buyers someone has to go that plays in the future. (Maybe more along the lines of Thompson, Bailey, Francisco)

I would like to see this club make the playoffs. But, this team (as currently assembled will not, no matter what Walt brings back in return) will not. This isn't your older brothers NL Central. The Cubs are going to run away with the division and either St. Louis, Milwakee, or NYM/PHI will take the WC.

The harsh reality is this team is not going anywhere. Even if they would have won today, the fact remains the same. There are just too many holes to count. Wake up people, the best thing for Walt J to do is be a seller and build for 09 and beyond.

On a more positive note, I do like the Reds playing in these playoff atmospheres. It nurtures the mentality of players like Bruce, Votto, and the young pitchers. If this team were to simply go bottoms up, I don't think they feel the same pressures.

* On that note, I loved Votto's at bad against CC in the ninth. Votto could go on to have a great career (probably will), but he will never forget that at bat. Thousands of fans screaming for you to K, and you do. He's better off because of it. Doubt the same occurred in AAA.

reds2221 · 07-13-2008, 05:33 PM

dthomas, I do agree with you, but when it has been years since you last had a winning season, accomplishing that should be your primary goal.

FlyerFanatic · 07-13-2008, 05:39 PM

contending for a wild card slot shouldnt be the goal, ever....we need to build a team thats going to compete for a WS...a team that is in first most the year..if not contending for 1st all year...i say blow up the team, build for the future.

dthomas24 · 07-13-2008, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reds2221

dthomas, I do agree with you, but when it has been years since you last had a winning season, accomplishing that should be your primary goal.

I understand what you're saying but I see this as the "Cincinnati sports attitude." As long as we have a winning season we are satisfied. The Bengals have 1 winning season in 18 years and you would have thought they had an NFL dynasty. (Of course this is coming from a Browns fan!!!) I just don't want this ownership to think they are going to pull the wool over our eyes saying that everything is great because the Reds win 82 games.

Kingspoint · 07-13-2008, 06:13 PM

5 Holds and 4 Blown Saves for Bray with a 1.600 WHIP. He has taken only baby steps each of the last three seasons.

He needs to take a huge step the rest of this season so that next year he's ready to deliver the way he was projected to deliver....a WHIP of 1.100 and 15 Holds with only 3 Blown Saves.

Blue · 07-13-2008, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingspoint

5 Holds and 4 Blown Saves for Bray with a 1.600 WHIP. He has taken only baby steps each of the last three seasons.

He needs to take a huge step the rest of this season so that next year he's ready to deliver the way he was projected to deliver....a WHIP of 1.100 and 15 Holds with only 3 Blown Saves.

I think he's striking enough guys out at this point that he just needs to have a clean slate to work with when he comes in. Kinda like Cordero.

fewfirstchoice · 07-13-2008, 06:39 PM

I think the fact the the Reds went 3-3 on the road is great and in fact better than myself and many probably thought.But the bad part of it is that if Dusty wasnt in charge thy would ahve probably went 4-2 which would have been even better.Im just saying dusty makes stupid moves hat cost this club games in the standings.I would say he will probaby cost this team 7 or 8 games by his self with the way he manages.Dusty may be a players manager but he sure is in the heck isnt a good manager of talent.If he Reds had a manager that knew what they were doing this would probably be at 500 team or a game or 2 above.I hope and pray he starts doing better and turns this team around but from the half season sample ive seen he just isnt going to be able to do it.

James B. · 07-13-2008, 06:46 PM

Today's loss falls directly on Joe Blow's Shoulders. Just fill in the blank with whoever the reds manager is. It seems some reds fans would not be happy with any manager. The names change but the complaining stays the same. In all reality it is not the managers fault but the players for losing. In my opinion, the reds problem is their defense. Even when they don't make errors their defense finds a way to hurt them almost every game. Votto is horrible at first. All three outfielders are below average at their positions. Really the only good defender the reds has is Brandon Phillips.

07-13-2008, 05:02 PM	#1
fewfirstchoice Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 509	Todays loss falls directly on Dusty Bakers shoulders.Dusty is showing why the Cubs and Giants got rid of him.His mind bogling lineups, his man love for Patterson, and terrible control of a pitching staff and this is just to mention a few of his weak points.I was rather excited when he was hired as the Reds manager but I now see why the fans of the Cubbies and Giants were happey when he got fired.Unless he changes his ways soon I dont expect the Reds to make the playoffs for at least 3 more years(length of his contract).

07-13-2008, 05:07 PM	#2
Blue Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,344	Re: Todays loss falls directly on I don't know if the Reds won't make the playoffs while he is manager, but I do know that they will never be as good as they could be as long as he's in charge. __________________ FIRE DUSTY BAKER ADOPT THIS SIGNATURE IN SOLIDARITY!!!

07-13-2008, 05:08 PM	#3
forfreelin04 Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Zanesville, OH Posts: 1,242	Re: Todays loss falls directly on I figured someone would start a thread raining on the parade of going 3-3 on a road trip from arguably the 2 best teams in the NL. The Reds were destined to lose this game. I'm surprised they even made it a game to begin with. Should they have won? Probably! But, there's a plethora of other games where we should have lost (e.g. Friday night's game thanks to Brewer miscues) I'm looking on the negative side due to the sheer fact that the Reds have poked their heads up again in the WC race. If they would have went 2-4 or 1-5 on this road trip, Walt's job is clear. Now they are holding on just enough to make him rethink his position as a total seller. This is not good if he decides to become a bit of a buyer and trade someone like an EdE or Votto at the deadline for some hitting or pitching.

07-13-2008, 05:12 PM	#4
keeganbrick Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 1,439	Re: Todays loss falls directly on EDE and Votto??? Those two are both untouchable from Walt's perspective. I would be amazed if either of those two are gone. __________________ Cincinnati Reds VOTTO

07-13-2008, 05:12 PM	#5
Blue Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 1,344	Re: Todays loss falls directly on That they win some games due to physical and mental errors on the part of the other team has nothing to do with the fact that they lost this one due to managerial incompetence, and doesn't make that fact any less important. __________________ FIRE DUSTY BAKER ADOPT THIS SIGNATURE IN SOLIDARITY!!!

07-13-2008, 05:13 PM	#6
RedsFanInBama Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Umm...Bama Posts: 764	Re: Todays loss falls directly on forfreelin04, I didn't see the game, but if Baker made moves that hurt this team and its chances to win the game, that is a problem. Regardless of what the record was on this road trip.

07-13-2008, 05:33 PM	#9
reds2221 Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 191	Re: Todays loss falls directly on dthomas, I do agree with you, but when it has been years since you last had a winning season, accomplishing that should be your primary goal. __________________ 3-2 at games this year 5-9 all time 2010 central division champions

07-13-2008, 05:39 PM	#10
FlyerFanatic Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 655	Re: Todays loss falls directly on contending for a wild card slot shouldnt be the goal, ever....we need to build a team thats going to compete for a WS...a team that is in first most the year..if not contending for 1st all year...i say blow up the team, build for the future.

07-13-2008, 06:13 PM	#12
Kingspoint Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: All over Posts: 6,940	Re: Todays loss falls directly on 5 Holds and 4 Blown Saves for Bray with a 1.600 WHIP. He has taken only baby steps each of the last three seasons. He needs to take a huge step the rest of this season so that next year he's ready to deliver the way he was projected to deliver....a WHIP of 1.100 and 15 Holds with only 3 Blown Saves.

07-13-2008, 06:39 PM	#14
fewfirstchoice Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 509	Re: Todays loss falls directly on I think the fact the the Reds went 3-3 on the road is great and in fact better than myself and many probably thought.But the bad part of it is that if Dusty wasnt in charge thy would ahve probably went 4-2 which would have been even better.Im just saying dusty makes stupid moves hat cost this club games in the standings.I would say he will probaby cost this team 7 or 8 games by his self with the way he manages.Dusty may be a players manager but he sure is in the heck isnt a good manager of talent.If he Reds had a manager that knew what they were doing this would probably be at 500 team or a game or 2 above.I hope and pray he starts doing better and turns this team around but from the half season sample ive seen he just isnt going to be able to do it.

07-13-2008, 06:46 PM	#15
James B. Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Cookeville, Tennessee Posts: 334	Re: Todays loss falls directly on Today's loss falls directly on Joe Blow's Shoulders. Just fill in the blank with whoever the reds manager is. It seems some reds fans would not be happy with any manager. The names change but the complaining stays the same. In all reality it is not the managers fault but the players for losing. In my opinion, the reds problem is their defense. Even when they don't make errors their defense finds a way to hurt them almost every game. Votto is horrible at first. All three outfielders are below average at their positions. Really the only good defender the reds has is Brandon Phillips.

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