Joe Posnanski on Larkin

[Joseph]

Originally Posted by Matt700wlw

Maybe Dunn should go, and then come back in a few years

Or maybe we should invent a time machine and go back in time and make him already have been gone and come back now.

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by M2

Which is why, if I were Larkin, I'd never come back. Too many Reds fans want to lionize one of the absolute worst humans ever to play the game (Pete Rose) and throw mud at one of the best (Larkin). I'd just as soon enjoy my life and stay away from that kind of dysfunction.

Yep, even with Allen and Lindner gone, I wouldn't want to come back if I was Barry, especially if he is enjoying his role in Washington (which I assume he is, otherwise he wouldn't be doing it.. it's not as if he needs the money).

Why come back to a club that banned him from the clubhouse when he tried to visit his friends in spring training?

Plus, if Larkin does come back then he's in a no win situation. It's doubtful he'd be recognized for anything good he did.. he'd get blamed for everything from the farm system to the team's poor hitting, lack of mentoring, inability to improve poorly talented players, etc..

[REDREAD]

Originally Posted by Unassisted

He lost me long before this. I was just taking advantage of the convenient ammunition.

I have no problem with anything he did on the field. I just don't see him as a role model.

But actions speak louder than words, don't they? IIRC, he was eligible for free agency right after his MVP season. He could've easily gotten truckloads of more money and more years. Instead, he took a discount to stay with the Reds to help the Reds become competitive.

So, here's a guy that showed by his actions that he did care where he played. He spent his entire career here. That far outweighs what someone percieves as an apathetic yawn.

It's interesting that many players don't seem to care where they play and they aren't crucified for it. If Dunn or Volquez leaves as a FA, will he get the same amount of anger from you for not being loyal?

[red-in-la]

Originally Posted by M2

Which is why, if I were Larkin, I'd never come back. Too many Reds fans want to lionize one of the absolute worst humans ever to play the game (Pete Rose) and throw mud at one of the best (Larkin). I'd just as soon enjoy my life and stay away from that kind of dysfunction.

Sounds like a good deal to me. I don't really want Rose or Larkin to represent the organization long term.

But my point would be....shoot, we make them multi-millionaires for playing a game and we have to admire them too?

[Unassisted]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

It's interesting that many players don't seem to care where they play and they aren't crucified for it. If Dunn or Volquez leaves as a FA, will he get the same amount of anger from you for not being loyal?

No, it's a different era. Unlike the writer's friend, I haven't been sad or angry to see a Red move on in more than 20 years.

What galls me about the "not caring where he plays" comment is the fact that it represented openly thumbing his nose at people who do care. Fans deserve and usually get more respect than that comment represents. This organization gave an expensive heave-ho to a guy who made an obscene gesture toward a truly loutish fan. Fan sentiment matters.

[TeamBoone]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

I view him as a great role model. He won both the Lou Gehrig Memorial Award and the Roberto Clemente Award for his character and charity work. He never did drugs or had any problems off the field. He was a great teammate by all accounts...he even learned Spanish in order to communicate with younger players. On the field he was a great leader and team captain and one of the best players in the game. I honestly can't think of a better role model than Barry Larkin.

Amen.

Until that unfortunate incident at the end of his career, I had never heard anyone breathe a bad word about him... he was pretty much lauded in every respect.

And, personally, I don't blame him at all for what happened at the end. He was paid less than he was worth for a long time... nothing wrong with wanting to balance the scale, IMHO.

He was a joy on the field with his outstanding defense, as well as at the plate. One of my all-time favorite Reds.

[TeamBoone]

Originally Posted by REDREAD

It's interesting that many players don't seem to care where they play and they aren't crucified for it. If Dunn or Volquez leaves as a FA, will he get the same amount of anger from you for not being loyal?

Since when is it a FA's choice? If the team doesn't want the player back, then he won't be back. It's not the player's fault, so why would the fans think him/them to be disloyal?

[Joseph]

Originally Posted by TeamBoone

Since when is it a FA's choice? If the team doesn't want the player back, then he won't be back. It's not the player's fault, so why would the fans think him/them to be disloyal?

People don't always know whos choice it is though.

[Cooper]

Larkin was surrounded by craziness for an awful lot of those years. He deserves a little credit for surviving those years with his reputation in tact. There could have been more times to speak up in public --but doing so often makes one appear to be a part of the craziness around you. So he kept his mouth shut and his head down and tried to change his part of the organization from inside.

His mostly quiet approach was the only approach left to take. Otherwise, it appears he is part of the problem or he is guilty by association. 1 ballplayer cannot correct a team full of dysfunction--he did what he could.

[GAC]

I don't believe the fanbase in Cincy, overall, has any dislike or resentment towards Larkin. I think that is exagerrated.

It was that same fanbase, back in 2000, when Allen was ready to let Larkin walk, that was so outraged that it influenced (pressured) Lindner to intervene and resign Barry.

Both the previous FO, as well as Barry himself, can be held responsible for any ill-feelings and/or animosity that has entered into or strained that relationship. To soley blame management, while placing an "angelic halo of innocence" over Barry as if he was total blameless in any of it, is, IMO, ignoring the facts of all that went on then.

Plenty of blame, on both sides, to go around IMO.

Does every ex-Red have to be working in some capacity within this FO, or it's somehow the crime of the century?

Perez works for the Marlins. Rijo also for the Nats. Is that also the fault of the Red's FO for somehow allowing that to happen?

And I also might add that the Nat's FO management, inwhich Larkin and Rijo work as some sort of "special" consultants (whatever that means), isn't getting especially high marks.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

I had never heard of Joe Posnanski until I read about him on FireJoeMorgan.com. They love him over there.

Both sites are two of the best blogs out there.

[macro]

Larkin’s numbers at first blush don’t exactly blow your mind — 2,300 hits, 200 homers, .295 batting average, three Gold Gloves, nice but probably now eye-popping.

He would've had more Gold Gloves if his career hadn't overlapped with that guy in St. Louis, and his offensive numbers have been overshadowed by those who came after him, and who played on a "different" playing field.

[Caveat Emperor]

Barry Larkin is the greatest Red I ever had the privilege to watch play. The fact that there is even a small vocal minority of the fan base that has a poor word to say about him and what he did for the franchise disgusts me as a fan.

And I'm going to go ahead and say something that I think goes along with this -- It is about time this team start honoring the 1990 Wire-to-Wire Reds for their accomplishment just as much as we laud the Big Red Machine.

It's OK to like the "new" guys as much as the old ones.

[red-in-la]

Caveat, love your passion for the 1990 Reds......a very exciting season.....but they weren't even the best team in baseball in 1990.

If you are too young to have watched the BRM, that is a shame.....because not only were they the best team for years, they won a ton of the time. They set some records, and blew away the rest of the league.

Larkin was a nice player, even a great player, but I am not sure you should put him in the same sentence with FIRST ballot HOF'ers.

[Johnny Footstool]

"First Ballot" is kind of a silly distinction. Either a player belongs in the HOF or he doesn't. I can understand how it can take a few extra years to fully appreciate the careers of some players, but for writers to withhold votes for the sole purpose of keeping certain players out of the "First Ballot" club is childish.