Griffey Jr Traded to the White Sox

[M2]

Originally Posted by princeton

I think that Jr would be better off doing the DH thing. ChiSox aren't the best place-- they're full of DHs already. Jr should feel right at home.

Jr trade was pure luck. Kenny Williams is surely the only GM in baseball having interest. and ChiSox don't even need him-- they need somebody different, really.

that said, during Jocketty's first years in St Louis, I often thought that he was the luckiest GM around because deals that I liked seemed to fall into his lap. nobody wanted McGwire, nobody wanted Edmonds, and Jocketty seemed to get them by default-- it's not like he ever paid a dime. eventually, it occurred to me that it's probably not coincidence. Walt kept money available to land these deals, and was patient enough to eschew other lesser players that cost just enough.

either that, or Jocketty is lucky that few GMs in the league have any common sense.

Well, the massive failings of your average GM aside, I don't think you can apply the word "luck" to Jocketty. What he did yesterday was demonstrate his ability to do things other GMs can't/won't. It's what set him apart with the Cardinals and the Reds are counting on an encore performance in Cincinnati.

Kenny Williams was out there for years. To DanO's credit, he targeted the ChiSox back in 2005. Unfortunately, being DanO, he couldn't sell the deal inside his own organization.

Jr. spent years swinging between "he's got to go, but no one wants him" and "you can't trade him when he's doing well." Jocketty managed to deal him during an ebb, the thing that was supposedly impossible to do.

My sense of Jocketty is that he probably listens well. Other GMs try to push their agendas. Jocketty has the ability to discover what other teams are willing to do, not necessarily what they want to do, but what they will do when push comes to shove. I've got to believe that takes a good ear.

Krivsky's strength was his ability to get big returns from small moves. The Reds needed that (and to a degree they still do). Jocketty's strength has been his ability to do big things. That might be the exact type of GM you want to succeed Krivsky - Krivsky assembled some pieces, Jocketty now needs to deliver the finished product.

[princeton]

Originally Posted by WVRedsFan

I'm willing to bet that Junior will shine in Chicago and play another year somewhere. .

rumor was that Jr was willing to renegotiate next year's salary in Cincy in exchange for an extra year. Sounds like he's thinking 2010, which would put him close to Willie Mays' HR numbers

Reds declined, of course.

[RedLegSuperStar]

Hal's article almost brought tears to my eyes. Junior was all those things in more.. he is a baseball icon.. he is a legend. He will truly be missed.

[RedLegSuperStar]

Originally Posted by princeton

rumor was that Jr was willing to renegotiate next year's salary in Cincy in exchange for an extra year. Sounds like he's thinking 2010, which would put him close to Willie Mays' HR numbers

Reds declined, of course.

Where did you hear that? It's funny because I was telling people at work and friends of mine that the Reds should instead restructure his contract and add a year to give themselves more payroll flexability. Glad Junior felt the way I precieved him to be.

[princeton]

Originally Posted by M2

That might be the exact type of GM you want to succeed Krivsky - Krivsky assembled some pieces, Jocketty now needs to deliver the finished product.

I've always agreed that Jocketty's a good type of GM to succeed Krivsky. I doubt that Jocketty could have conjured as much talent as Krivsky did; it's not clear that Krivsky could do what Jocketty does well, because it's probably less easy than he made it look in St Louis and because Krivsky never got into that position.

but Jocketty IS lucky that Ken Williams still has a job...

[princeton]

Originally Posted by RedLegSuperStar

Where did you hear that?.

I read it yesterday. ESPN, I think.

[Falls City Beer]

I love Jocketty more than anyone, but I don't think what he did in moving Junior is particularly special at all. He saved $4 million of a $116 million + interest deal.

All things considered, this was still one of Jocketty's worst trading-season performances.

He brought in no talent.

[M2]

Originally Posted by princeton

but Jocketty IS lucky that Ken Williams still has a job...

As off the mark as Williams often seems, he's working on his sixth winning season in eight years (with one .500 season and only one losing season). He's won a ring and his club is looking for its second division title. While that's not wild success, it's a fairly strong resume.

At this point, possibly the bigger unexplored question is what's he doing right? My guess (and this is only a guess) is that he benefits from a willingness to make moves. While the individual moves sometimes don't seem to make sense at first blush, his higher level of activity means that in the long haul he's getting more of what he wants. It's the benefit of buying in bulk if you will.

[Always Red]

Originally Posted by WVRedsFan

I also fear for what the Reds offense will become without Griffey in the lineup. Maybe Dunn and others will step up. Lord knows we need them to do just that.

The #3 spot for the Reds, occupied by Junior most of this year, rates #23 out of 30 for production this year in MLB.

I love Junior for what he WAS, but it is well past time for the Reds to upgrade his spot in the outfield- both offensively and defensively.

If the Reds can find someone who can hit and field up to league average standards, it will be an upgrade over what Junior has been producing this year. I am not a hater or basher, but that is the sad truth. I'm glad the Reds finally chose team over individual.

[princeton]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

He saved $4 million of a $116 million + interest deal.

yes, we should definitely put Walt on the hook for not getting Kenny Williams to pony up the other $112mill + interest.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by princeton

yes, we should definitely put Walt on the hook for not getting Kenny Williams to pony up the other $112mill + interest.

Okay. Sure. But paltry savings is *so* Dan O'Brien.

And more importantly: why is Homer Bailey still a Red?

[nate]

Maybe the Reds can sign Jr. as a FA in the offseason.

:o

[hebroncougar]

I haven't made my way through all 26 pages of this thread. I did hear a Chicago beatwriter on XM this morning saying that the Sox would play him in CF tonight. I spit up my coffee and almost ran off the road. Surely they aren't thinking of doing this.

[WVRedsFan]

Originally Posted by hebroncougar

I haven't made my way through all 26 pages of this thread. I did hear a Chicago beatwriter on XM this morning saying that the Sox would play him in CF tonight. I spit up my coffee and almost ran off the road. Surely they aren't thinking of doing this.

They certainly are. I don't imagine that experiment will last long. I look for him to be playing several positions, but mostly DH'ing a lot.

[M2]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Okay. Sure. But paltry savings is *so* Dan O'Brien.

And more importantly: why is Homer Bailey still a Red?

Actually, this move gives me more confidence that Jocketty will be able to move Bailey for something good (probably during the offseason) no matter how much of a batting tee Homer is at present.

Jocketty did the thing we'd come to believe was impossible. IMO, that's more important than the savings or the return. I look at it as a fairly meaningless move on the field, but a spectacular show of ability from the front office. If this guy can walk on water, what else can he do?