Updates on the Reds top relief prospects

[OnBaseMachine]

AAA Louisville

LHP Danny Ray Herrera: 55 IP, 45 H, 1 HR, 15 BB/43 K, 2.29 ERA

RHP Josh Roenicke: 46.2 IP, 43 H, 3 HR, 17 BB/53 K, 2.70 ERA

LHP Tyler Pelland: 43 IP, 36 H, 4 HR, 27 BB/51 K, 3.98 ERA...0.73 ERA in July.

RHP Carlos Fisher: 54.1 IP, 54 H, 3 HR, 22 BB/52 K, 3.48 ERA

AA Chattanooga

RHP Robert Manuel: 67.2 IP, 45 H, 2 HR, 17 BB/86 K, 1.33 ERA

RHP Ramon Geronimo: 46 IP, 22 H, 0 HR, 12 BB/56 K, 0.78 ERA

High-A Sarasota

RHP Zach Stewart: 19.1 IP, 12 H, 0 HR, 5 BB/18 K, 0.47 ERA

LHP Philippe-Alexandre Valiquette: 50.1 IP, 51 H, 2 HR, 21 BB/51 K, 3.04 ERA

RHP Terrell Young: 42.2 IP, 36 H, 1 HR, 22 BB/38 K, 2.74 ERA

Low-A Dayton

LHP Aguido Gonzalez: 22 IP, 9 H, 0 HR, 9 BB/29 K, 0.00 ERA

LHP Jeremy Horst: 70.2 IP, 47 H, 2 HR, 26 BB/79 K...converted to starter now.

RHP Jeff Jeffords: 57 IP, 48 H, 3 HR, 30 BB/65 K, 3.63 ERA

Rookie-Billings

RHP Josh Beal: 16 IP, 16 H, 0 HR, 5 BB/17 K, 2.81 ERA

LHP Mace Thurman: 12.2 IP, 5 H, 0 HR, 4 BB/11 K, 0.00 ERA

GCL Reds

LHP Blaine Howell: 13.1 IP, 12 H, 0 HR, 6 BB/17 K, 1.35 ERA

Others

RHP Sean Watson (AA Chattanooga) was considered one of the better relief arms in the system entering the season but his control has been awful, on the plus side he still has great strikeouts rates: 41 IP, 36 H, 5 HR, 34 BB/58 K, 5.71 ERA.

LHP Pedro Viola is another big arm that has struggled this season, though he is starting to come around it appears: 50 IP, 58 H, 3 HR, 26 BB/56 K, 5.58 ERA...his last four appearances: 7.2 IP, 1 H, 0 R, 0 BB, 9 K.

[TheBigLebowski]

Very encouraging. Roenicke should have been up a while ago imo.

[GoReds33]

Somebody please explain to me why Roenicke, and Herrera aren't up here. Both are mowing down hitters in AAA. Sure Herrera's a soft thrower, but with all the hard throwing guys we have now, he'd be a nice person to throw out there every few days.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Well done, OBM.

[mace]

One more way to take a look at these guys.

ERA:

Aguido Gonzalez (Bill-Day-Sar) 0.00 (22 IP)
Mace Thurman (Bill) 0.00 (12.2 IP)
Zach Stewart (Day-Sar) 0.47 (19.2 IP)
Ramon Geronimo (Sar-Chat) 0.78 (46 IP)
Robert Manuel (Sar-Chat) 1.33 (67.2 IP)
Daniel Herrera (Chat-Lou) 2.29 (55 IP)

WHIP:

Mace Thurman (Bill) 0.71 (12.2 IP)
Ramon Geronimo (Sar-Chat) 0.76 (46 IP)
Aguido Gonzalex (Bill-Day-Sar) 0.86 (22 IP)
Zach Stewart (Day) 0.88 (19.2 IP)
Robert Manuel (Sar-Chat) 0.92 (67.2 IP)
Jeremy Horst (Day) 1.03 (70.2 IP)

K/IP:

Sean Watson (Sat-Chat) 1.41 (41 IP)
Aguido Gonzalez (Bill-Day-Sar) 1.32 (22 IP)
Blaine Howell (GCL) 1.28 (13.1 IP)
Robert Manuel (Sat-Chat) 1.27 (67.2 IP)
Ramon Geronimo (Sar-Chat) 1.22 (46 IP)
Tyler Pelland (Lou) 1.19 (43 IP)
Jeff Jeffords (Day) 1.14 (57 IP)
Josh Roenicke (Chat-Lou) 1.14 (46.2 IP)
Jeremy Horst (Day) 1.12 (70.2 IP)
Pedro Viola (Chat) 1.12 (50 IP)
Josh Beal (Bill) 1.06 (16 IP)
Philippe Alexandre-Valiquette 1.01 (50.1)

Relative Youthfulness:

Blaine Howell 19
Josh Beal 20
Mace Thurman 21
Philippe A-V 21
Aguido Gonzalez 21
Zach Stewart 21
Jeremy Horst 22
Terrell Young 23 (very soon)
Sean Watson 23 (just turned)
Jeff Jeffords 23
Daniel Herrera 23
Ramon Geronimo 24
Tyler Pelland 24
Robert Manuel 25 (just turned)
Pedro Viola 25 (just turned)
Carlos Fisher 25
Josh Roenicke 26 (very soon)

[RED VAN HOT]

Thanks for the post. This thread provides an opportunity for me to ask the board about information on some of these pitchers.

In most cases, it is easy to determine why a player is moving up through the system. For example, Roenicke appears to throw hard. Fisher gets a lot of ground balls. Then, there is the pitcher who does not appear to do either, but nevertheless has high strikeout rate, low walk rate, and low batting average against. In these cases, my guess is that they have an unusual out pitch that few batters at that level have ever seen. Herrera seems to fall into that category.

Can anyone comment on what has made the following pitchers so effective?
Manuel
Geronimo
A. Gonzalez

[camisadelgolf]

I kind of feel bad. I just started a similar thread without knowing this thread existed.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...42#post1705442

One thing these threads show is that the Reds will have to get rid of some guys relief arms who still have a chance to put things together in the Major Leagues. I can't believe I'm saying this, but the Reds have a surplus of quality pitchers in the low minors. I just hope they make the right decisions in who they discard. Actually, what I want even more is for the Reds to pick up another minor league affiliate.

[mace]

Can we merge these? It would be nice to have your information from the other thread over here. This is all good stuff.

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by mace

Can we merge these? It would be nice to have your information from the other thread over here. This is all good stuff.

Yeah, good idea.

Here are some select stats on all the Reds pitchers in the organizations. Some people might be surprised by some guys who are putting up some good numbers in the low minors (Hildenbrandt, Snowden, Torcise, Thurman, et al). The guys with asterisks have pitched for multiple teams this year.

Info		Age	GCL			G	GS	IP	H	HR	BB	SO	ERA	WHIP	BB/9IP	SO/9IP	K/BB	
2007 3rd round	19	Evan Hildenbrandt	6	6	31.3	26	2	12	29	2.87	1.21	3.45	8.33	2.42	
2007 16th round	19	Shea Snowden		6	4	31.0	23	0	8	28	0.87	1.00	2.32	8.13	3.50	
2006 free agent	18	Efrain Rodriguez	5	5	23.3	33	1	9	11	6.17	1.80	3.47	4.24	1.22	
2007 48th round	18	Mike Henry		7	1	18.0	15	1	16	16	4.50	1.72	8.00	8.00	1.00	
2007 5th round	22	Drew Bowman*		6	6	16.7	21	0	4	19	4.32	1.50	2.16	10.26	4.75	GCL, Dayton
2004 free agent	20	Hector Santana		8	2	15.7	21	0	3	12	4.60	1.53	1.72	6.89	4.00	
2008 13th round	19	Blaine Howell*		9	0	13.3	12	0	6	17	1.35	1.35	4.05	11.48	2.83	GCL, Sarasota
2008 47th round	22	David Torcise		8	0	13.0	6	0	3	11	1.38	0.69	2.08	7.62	3.67	
2006 free agent	19	Rafael Ceballos		8	0	11.0	14	3	7	6	8.18	1.91	5.73	4.91	0.86	
2008 26th round	22	Mike Bohana		10	0	10.3	14	0	4	10	4.35	1.74	3.48	8.71	2.50	
2008 34th round	21	Bryan Gardner		8	0	10.3	11	1	7	11	5.23	1.74	6.10	9.58	1.57	
2007 free agent	18	Matteo Pizziconi	7	0	8.7	7	0	6	9	1.04	1.50	6.23	9.35	1.50	
2006 free agent	20	Hugo Calderon		5	0	7.0	3	0	7	3	1.29	1.43	9.00	3.86	0.43	
2007 34th round	19	Jeremy Vinyard		3	0	4.0	6	0	2	3	2.25	2.00	4.50	6.75	1.50	
2008 7th round	19	Pedro Villareal		2	0	2.3	6	0	2	3	7.71	3.43	7.71	11.57	1.50	
2008 25th round	17	Raul Rodriguez		1	0	1.0	1	0	2	0	9.00	3.00	18.00	0.00	0.00	
2008 41st round	21	Justin Walker		1	0	1.0	2	0	1	0	9.00	3.00	9.00	0.00	0.00	
2007 free agent	18	Luca Panerati		1	0	1.0	0	0	0	0	0.00	0.00	0.00	0.00	#DIV/0!	
1999 free agent	25	Jerry Gil		1	0	1.0	0	0	0	2	0.00	0.00	0.00	18.00	#DIV/0!	

Info		Age	Billings		G	GS	IP	H	HR	BB	SO	ERA	WHIP	BB/9IP	SO/9IP	K/BB	
2006 16th round	22	Jamie Arneson*		22	14	71.7	85	7	58	61	6.91	2.00	7.28	7.66	1.05	Billings, Dayton
2005 free agent	19	Oscar Castro		8	8	41.0	41	1	9	28	5.05	1.22	1.98	6.15	3.11	
2004 free agent	22	Leo Astorga		7	7	37.3	36	2	8	29	2.41	1.18	1.93	6.99	3.63	
2007 29th round	23	Steve Otterness*	24	0	33.0	35	3	22	31	5.73	1.73	6.00	8.45	1.41	Billings, Dayton, Sarasota
2008 14th round	21	Lance Janke		7	7	28.7	30	2	8	21	4.40	1.33	2.51	6.59	2.63	
2008 5th round	21	Clayton Shunick		7	7	26.7	31	4	4	27	7.09	1.31	1.35	9.11	6.75	
2008 32nd round	21	Justin Freeman		8	1	20.7	26	3	5	20	5.66	1.50	2.18	8.71	4.00	
2007 free agent	22	Dan Zeffiro		8	0	18.3	15	1	7	12	3.44	1.20	3.44	5.89	1.71	
2007 44th round	20	Josh Beal*		13	0	16.0	16	0	5	17	2.81	1.31	2.81	9.56	3.40	Billings, Sarasota
2006 11th round	20	Brandon Rice		9	0	13.7	21	1	5	4	5.93	1.90	3.29	2.63	0.80	
2007 31st round	22	Jordan Hotchkiss	11	0	13.3	18	1	4	13	6.08	1.65	2.70	8.78	3.25	
2005 free agent	22	Junior Martinez		10	0	13.0	14	2	13	10	7.62	2.08	9.00	6.92	0.77	
2008 19th round	21	Mace Thurman		7	0	12.7	5	0	4	11	0.00	0.71	2.84	7.82	2.75	
2008 24th round	21	Enrique Garcia		5	1	12.7	9	1	6	8	3.55	1.18	4.26	5.68	1.33	
2008 37th round	22	Randall Linebaugh	11	0	12.0	13	2	3	16	3.75	1.33	2.25	12.00	5.33	
2008 23rd round	23	Will Hudgens		5	0	10.3	14	2	2	7	10.45	1.55	1.74	6.10	3.50	

Info		Age	Dayton			G	GS	IP	H	HR	BB	SO	ERA	WHIP	BB/9IP	SO/9IP	K/BB	
2003 free agent	23	Luis Montano		21	21	113.3	111	10	26	85	3.97	1.21	2.06	6.75	3.27	
2005 free agent	22	Daniel Guerrero*	19	18	88.0	117	20	26	53	7.36	1.63	2.66	5.42	2.04	Dayton, Sarasota
2007 26th round	21	Curtis Partch		25	13	84.3	93	6	35	58	5.66	1.52	3.74	6.19	1.66	
2007 21st round	22	Jeremy Horst		30	4	70.7	47	2	26	79	2.67	1.03	3.31	10.06	3.04	
2007 19th round	23	Jeff Jeffords		31	0	57.0	48	3	30	65	3.63	1.37	4.74	10.26	2.17	
2003 free agent	23	Henry Arias*		30	0	50.3	45	3	31	45	3.93	1.51	5.54	8.05	1.45	Burlington, Dayton
2004 free agent	22	Juan Rafael*		13	5	48.7	51	3	20	47	4.62	1.46	3.70	8.69	2.35	GCL, Dayton, Sarasota
2006 5th round	20	Josh Ravin		11	11	45.3	42	7	38	38	6.35	1.76	7.54	7.54	1.00	
2007 28th round	22	Jon Conatser		19	0	39.7	34	1	13	18	3.40	1.18	2.95	4.08	1.38	
2007 22nd round	23	Tyler Rhoden		23	0	38.3	43	1	26	23	4.70	1.80	6.10	5.40	0.88	
2007 1st round	18	Kyle Lotzkar		8	8	30.0	25	2	21	45	4.50	1.53	6.30	13.50	2.14	
2007 free agent	21	Aguido Gonzalez*	16	0	22.0	9	0	9	29	0.00	0.82	3.68	11.86	3.22	Billings, Dayton, Sarasota

Info		Age	Sarasota		G	GS	IP	H	HR	BB	SO	ERA	WHIP	BB/9IP	SO/9IP	K/BB	
2007 3rd round	23	Scott Carroll*		20	19	113.3	117	4	32	76	3.41	1.31	2.54	6.04	2.38	Dayton, Sarasota
2002 free agent	22	Alex Smit		21	21	111.7	98	9	56	94	3.87	1.38	4.51	7.58	1.68	
2007 15th round	23	Matt Klinker*		19	18	105.0	98	5	27	76	3.26	1.19	2.31	6.51	2.81	Dayton, Sarasota
2005 free agent	22	Enerio Del Rosario*	26	11	80.3	82	4	27	54	3.70	1.36	3.02	6.05	2.00	Dayton, Sarasota
2004 4th round	22	Rafael Gonzalez		17	15	74.3	80	14	35	53	6.42	1.55	4.24	6.42	1.51	
2004 free agent	23	Misael DeJesus*		29	7	69.3	61	7	33	77	4.93	1.36	4.28	10.00	2.33	Sarasota, Chattanooga
2005 13th round	23	Logan Ondrusek*		32	0	56.0	65	1	28	49	4.34	1.66	4.50	7.88	1.75	Sarasota, Louisville
2007 14th round	23	Joe Krebs*		35	0	52.7	51	4	17	42	2.75	1.29	2.91	7.18	2.47	Dayton, Sarasota
2004 7th round	21	Phil Valiquette*	36	0	50.3	51	2	21	51	3.04	1.43	3.75	9.12	2.43	Dayton, Sarasota
2004 free agent	21	Ruben Medina		34	0	49.0	51	1	23	30	3.49	1.51	4.22	5.51	1.30	
2004 10th round	22	Terrell Young*		32	0	42.7	36	1	22	38	2.74	1.36	4.64	8.02	1.73	Dayton, Sarasota
2003 5th round	27	Justin James*		14	3	24.0	18	2	10	18	4.13	1.17	3.75	6.75	1.80	GCL, Sarasota, Chattanooga
2008 3rd round	21	Zach Stewart*		13	0	19.3	12	0	5	18	0.47	0.88	2.33	8.38	3.60	Dayton, Sarasota

Info		Age	Chattanooga		G	GS	IP	H	HR	BB	SO	ERA	WHIP	BB/9IP	SO/9IP	K/BB	
2005 5th round	24	James Avery		22	22	118.3	137	13	42	86	4.94	1.51	3.19	6.54	2.05	
2006 6th round	22	Jordan Smith*		20	20	115.7	125	8	24	81	3.81	1.29	1.87	6.30	3.38	Sarasota, Chattanooga
2005 4th round	24	Sam LeCure		20	20	113.0	107	10	48	99	3.82	1.37	3.82	7.88	2.06	
2005 2nd round	21	Travis Wood*		20	20	98.7	98	7	52	86	4.74	1.52	4.74	7.84	1.65	Sarasota, Chattanooga
2002 4th round	24	Camilo Vazquez*		27	9	76.7	79	6	32	61	3.87	1.45	3.76	7.16	1.91	Sarasota, Chattanooga, Louisville
2005 free agent	24	Robert Manuel*		42	0	67.7	45	2	17	86	1.33	0.92	2.26	11.44	5.06	Sarasota, Chattanooga
2005 free agent	25	Pedro Viola		43	1	50.0	58	3	26	56	5.58	1.68	4.68	10.08	2.15	
2006 30th round	23	Lee Tabor*		39	0	49.3	53	4	23	35	4.38	1.54	4.20	6.39	1.52	Sarasota, Chattanooga
2004 free agent	24	Ramon Geronimo*		39	0	46.0	22	0	12	56	0.78	0.74	2.35	10.96	4.67	Sarasota, Chattanooga
2006 19th round	23	Derrik Lutz		46	0	44.3	55	2	27	38	5.48	1.85	5.48	7.71	1.41	
2006 2nd round	22	Sean Watson		41	0	41.0	36	5	34	58	5.71	1.71	7.46	12.73	1.71	
2001 12th round	25	Mike Hrynio		27	0	38.3	41	6	18	35	5.87	1.54	4.23	8.22	1.94	

Info		Age	Louisville		G	GS	IP	H	HR	BB	SO	ERA	WHIP	BB/9IP	SO/9IP	K/BB	
1998 2nd round	31	Adam Pettyjohn		21	21	127.7	133	14	35	59	4.72	1.32	2.47	4.16	1.69	
2006 13th round	25	Ben Jukich*		21	21	125.3	132	7	47	96	3.95	1.43	3.38	6.89	2.04	Chattanooga, Louisville
2003 8th round	22	Daryl Thompson*		19	19	115.3	90	9	30	90	2.81	1.04	2.34	7.02	3.00	Chattanooga, Louisville, Cincinnati
2004 free agent	25	Ramon Ramirez*		25	19	112.7	94	12	43	115	4.23	1.22	3.43	9.19	2.67	Chattanooga, Louisville
2005 3rd round	24	Matt Maloney		20	20	111.7	105	12	32	107	4.19	1.23	2.58	8.62	3.34	
2003 free agent	26	Justin Mallett*		22	12	82.7	76	8	35	60	4.57	1.34	3.81	6.53	1.71	Chattanooga, Louisville
1998 2nd round	28	Matt Belisle*		28	9	78.3	92	5	16	44	4.94	1.38	1.84	5.06	2.75	Sarasota, Chattanooga, Louisville, Cincinnati
2006 45th round	23	Danny Herrera*		46	0	58.0	49	2	16	47	2.64	1.12	2.48	7.29	2.94	Chattanooga, Louisville, Cincinnati
2005 11th round	25	Carlos Fisher*		39	0	54.3	54	3	22	52	3.48	1.40	3.64	8.61	2.36	Chattanooga, Louisville
1998 9th round	30	Jon Adkins		41	0	48.3	47	4	9	31	3.54	1.16	1.68	5.77	3.44	
2006 10th round	25	Josh Roenicke*		44	0	46.7	43	3	17	53	2.70	1.29	3.28	10.22	3.12	Chattanooga, Louisville
2001 4th round	25	Bobby Livingston*	8	8	45.7	51	0	13	34	3.35	1.40	2.56	6.70	2.62	GCL, Sarasota, Louisville
2002 9th round	24	Ty Pelland		34	0	43.0	36	4	27	51	3.98	1.47	5.65	10.67	1.89	
2001 4th round	27	Marcus McBeth		22	0	22.7	22	6	14	18	6.75	1.59	5.56	7.15	1.29	

Info		Age	Cincinnati		G	GS	IP	H	HR	BB	SO	ERA	WHIP	BB/9IP	SO/9IP	K/BB	
2004 free agent	22	Johnny Cueto		22	22	129.0	129	23	47	116	5.02	1.36	3.28	8.09	2.47	
2001 free agent	25	Edinson Volquez		22	21	126.7	105	8	61	134	2.77	1.31	4.33	9.52	2.20	
1999 2nd round	29	Aaron Harang		20	19	123.0	138	20	34	108	4.76	1.40	2.49	7.90	3.18	
2004 1st round	22	Homer Bailey*		22	22	122.7	139	16	51	93	4.92	1.55	3.74	6.82	1.82	Louisville, Cincinnati
1995 3rd round	31	Bronson Arroyo		22	22	119.0	142	21	42	104	5.60	1.55	3.18	7.87	2.48	
1998 3rd round	31	Josh Fogg*		20	13	85.3	100	12	23	55	5.59	1.44	2.43	5.80	2.39	Sarasota, Louisville, Cincinnati
1998 41st round	27	Todd Coffey*		46	0	54.0	67	8	18	46	4.83	1.57	3.00	7.67	2.56	Louisville, Cincinnati
1997 3rd round	29	Jeremy Affeldt		54	0	53.3	56	7	21	55	4.05	1.44	3.54	9.28	2.62	
1996 13th round	33	Mike Lincoln		40	0	51.3	39	7	14	45	3.33	1.03	2.45	7.89	3.21	
2002 8th round	27	Jared Burton		43	0	48.3	45	3	17	50	2.23	1.28	3.17	9.31	2.94	
1998 2nd round	28	Gary Majewski*		48	0	48.0	51	3	14	37	3.75	1.35	2.63	6.94	2.64	Louisville, Cincinnati
1994 free agent	33	Francisco Cordero	49	0	47.3	39	4	29	51	3.42	1.44	5.51	9.70	1.76	
1988 3rd round	38	Dave Weathers		47	0	44.0	50	5	19	31	3.48	1.57	3.89	6.34	1.63	
2004 1st round	25	Bill Bray*		51	0	43.3	40	3	23	54	2.70	1.45	4.78	11.22	2.35	Louisville, Cincinnati
1986 1st round	40	Kent Mercker*		18	1	16.3	15	1	9	7	3.31	1.47	4.96	3.86	0.78	Dayton, Louisville, Cincinnati

[corkedbat]

Didn't realize Reonicke was 26. Just another reason to get him up here now and start getgtin him ready for next season

[mace]

Roenicke's a guy that I don't mind seeing still at AAA. He arrived late to pitching, and apparently he's getting by mostly with fastballs. As hard as he throws, the numbers tell me that he probably doesn't have great location of the fastball. In the big leagues, that's big trouble. So I don't mind seeing him refine his craft in the minor leagues for a little longer.

[kpresidente]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

LHP Tyler Pelland: 43 IP, 36 H, 4 HR, 27 BB/51 K, 3.98 ERA...0.73 ERA in July.

This is the one that caught my eye. I'd noticed while looking around a while ago that his ERA was down in the low-4s, but hadn't looked further into it. It'd be nice to see him regain his prospect status after a horrible start.

[redsmetz]

Originally Posted by mace

Roenicke's a guy that I don't mind seeing still at AAA. He arrived late to pitching, and apparently he's getting by mostly with fastballs. As hard as he throws, the numbers tell me that he probably doesn't have great location of the fastball. In the big leagues, that's big trouble. So I don't mind seeing him refine his craft in the minor leagues for a little longer.

I think this is an important point. In our zeal to see guys get to the big leagues, there are sometimes reasons why it may be better to hold the guy back for further refining. Things aren't often clearly black and white. Sometimes, there's some grey in the picture.

[Rojo]

Originally Posted by RED VAN HOT

Can anyone comment on what has made the following pitchers so effective?
Manuel
Geronimo
A. Gonzalez

If asked before about Manuel. He's a little old for AA, but his numbers are plain sick. Anyone ever see him?

[ChatterRed]

Good to see Geronimo moved up to double AA.

I agree about Roenicke. I have not seen him pitch, but the "getting by on fastballs" comment reminds me of Coffey. I did know that Roenicke got a late start, as to why he is 26.