Dunn traded to DBacks

[MWM]

Originally Posted by Krusty

The Reds need to bring players in with winning attitudes.

Like Manny Ramirez? Gary Sheffield?

[Az Red]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

Impressive. This is going to be one painful offense for the remainder of the season.

Playing for a high draft pick...

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

After much speculation it's looking like Micah Owings is a near lock as one of them. And the other is a crapshoot to figure at this point. But I would guess either Josh Whitesell 1B or Jailen Peguero RHSP.

With all the holes on this team, it'd be criminal if one of the players was a 1B. I know pitching wins and all but this offense has been stripped down to nothing. I'm hoping we get an offensive player or two in this deal.

[George Anderson]

Originally Posted by Gainesville Red

But what does that mean? Can you define it?


I'd settle for some good baseball players. (Plural, the roster's a mess.)

It seems simplistic but I agree that the players of late in this organization just don't seem to have winning attitudes.

In 1990 I felt by acquiring guys with playoff experience in Mariano Duncan, Bill Doran, Billy Hatcher, Rick Mahler and with Griffey Sr. already on board they just knew what it took to get a team to win and get in to the playoffs. Throw in Lou Pinella who while hadn't won anything yet as a manager just seemed to add to the chemistry that produced a winning attitude.

I haven't seen a real winning attitude like this since the Greg Vaughn days.

[Az Red]

Originally Posted by jesusfan

hmmm... Whitesell was not in the line-up tonight for Tuscan and he is a regular starter... does that tell us something???

Very interesting...HMMMMMMMM....

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by MWM

Like Manny Ramirez? Gary Sheffield?

Hello Mark Texieria

[JaxRed]

So if it's Owens and Whitesell (which I'm starting to think), I have to think you add Whitesell to the ML team, which means Votto to LF. (which is what the Alonso drafting seemed to indicate anyway)

Otherwise having Whitesell as part of trade is useless.

[MWM]

Originally Posted by Krusty

Hello Mark Texieria

Because he really helped Atlanta and Texas?

[johngalt]

Originally Posted by JaxRed

So if it's Owens and Whitesell (which I'm starting to think), I have to think you add Whitesell to the ML team, which means Votto to LF. (which is what the Alonso drafting seemed to indicate anyway)

Otherwise having Whitesell as part of trade is useless.

I like Whitesell a lot. I hope he's one of them. Would love to have those walks on this club.

[Krusty]

Originally Posted by MWM

Because he really helped Atlanta and Texas?

One man doesn't make a team. Yet his track record shows that he is a better hitter than Dunn or Griffey.

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by MartyFan

I get what you are saying but every organization has a foundation that it has to build on...a culture it has to establish and the Reds STILL need to do that.

I think the team has some good talent that has underperformed DRASTICALLY this year...A good example of a good leader is how Greg Vaughn helped a pretty average team in 1999 over perform...he did that by threatening to beat down anyone who slacked...was he liked by everyone? Nope but he was able to motivate the team that allowed Mack to say "I just let them go out there and play"..that's the only example I can come up with in recent Reds history.

MF, I think the question is not whether or not culture/leadership is important. Let's assume it is for the sake of discussion. The question is whether Dunn's presence somehow prevented the Reds from having said culture. I think it's difficult to make the case that Dunn is at fault for the Reds attitude. Rather, I think the attitude is a direct result of a dearth of talent. Losing begets losing. I don't disagree that the Reds culture left a lot to be desired. But I don't see many teams with the poor talent level the Reds have run out there the last 8 years with the type of culture being described. It's tough to adopt a position where losing is unacceptable when the deck is constantly stacked against you.

I suppose one could argue that no amount of talent is worth the money Dunn would require if it does not also come with the type of leadership abilities you've described. However, I imagine that on a team in the hunt, Dunn's attitude and role in the clubhouse will be cast in a very different light. It would have been very interesting to see how Dunn would have been received had he been surrounded with more talent in Red.

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by Krusty

Hello Mark Texieria

You live in New York Krusty? Teix is going to get at least 20% more than most were willing to pay Dunn.

[Krusty]

Eight years of losing and the Reds are paying Dunn and Griffey 25 million while watching this team play to a level of mediocrity.

Maybe the Reds don't get Texieria. Maybe they go with a youth movement. But bottom line is this team wasn't going to win with these two and no matter who the manager or general manager or who the owner is.

[RedsManRick]

Originally Posted by George Anderson

It seems simplistic but I agree that the players of late in this organization just don't seem to have winning attitudes.

In 1990 I felt by acquiring guys with playoff experience in Mariano Duncan, Bill Doran, Billy Hatcher, Rick Mahler and with Griffey Sr. already on board they just knew what it took to get a team to win and get in to the playoffs. Throw in Lou Pinella who while hadn't won anything yet as a manager just seemed to add to the chemistry that produced a winning attitude.

I haven't seen a real winning attitude like this since the Greg Vaughn days.

Duncan, Doran, Hatcher, etc. are great for chemistry when you have Davis, Larkin, O'Neil, Sabo, Rijo, Browning, Myers, Dibble, Charlton. The problem of the Reds of recent vintage is the lack of guys from that group, not the lack of Billy Dorans and Rick Mahlers.

You can't fret about the players who put you over the top when you are sitting at the base of the mountain.

[CTA513]

Chris Young and Brandon Webb on gettin Dunn:

"It's great," D-backs center fielder Chris Young said of the deal. "He's an amazing hitter. He can help any offense out, no doubt about it. I'm glad to have him here.

"He puts up some amazing power numbers. You know he's going to hit some home runs and he brings us some excitement to the game as well."

"It's going to be good," said pitcher Brandon Webb. "He's a guy that produces a lot of runs, he draws some walks and has a good on-base percentage. I don't know where they're going to stick him, but wherever it is, he's going to do some damage."


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