Roberts - revisited

[I(heart)Freel]

Erardi's column today advocates for a trade for Brian Roberts.

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...811020447/1071

Now where did I read that before?

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showt...76#post1721076

I stand by that (even though it was written in August) as my ideal off season plan. The good thing about moving Edwin to left is that defensive expectation there in this town is pretty low.

[redsfandan]

i like what MisterRedlegs wrote about phillips history at ss:

"78 errors in just 356 games at shortstop in the minors for an absurd .950 fielding percentage ... established as the best defensive second baseman, according to Bill James' Bible ... your bright idea is moving Phillips to a position where he sucks?"

while roberts is a good player, between $ and prospects we'd probably have to give too much for a player that we don't need. i'm really not comfortable with dickerson, freel, and hairston covering both center and left. imo we need an outfielder alot more.

[ChatterRed]

Leave Phillips at 2B or trade him. He's not the answer at SS.

[redsfandan]

that article also suggests agon at 3rd. now i know agon isn't an elite ss but if he is healthy wouldn't it make more sense for him to play a position he's actually played before and done a pretty good job at instead of a position that he's never played before?

[kpresidente]

Phillips made a lot of errors when he played SS because he was a bad fielder at the time, not because he has a problem with SS, per se. Cleveland moved him to 2B and he still made a lot of errors. His first year with us, he played 2B he made 16 errors.

The next year he had 8 and 7 last year.

The point is, his fielding in general has improved. There's no reason to think that if we moved him to SS, he'd have the same troubles as he did early in his career.

[Mitri]

Another absurd "what if" article by a Reds writer. Almost none of those ideas are realistic and even fewer address the team's real issues. Why would Walt want to give up all of that for Roberts, who's going to be VERY expensive next year?

My solution: that the Reds should look to focus on two areas: SS and two relief pitchers. Signing Affeldt or Reyes solves the LHRP slot, and I feel good about one of those two signing with Cincinnati. The SS problem I'm afraid may never get address, though it'd be a good idea to use Edwin or Phillips as trade bait if necessary.

[Natty Redlocks]

Originally Posted by Mitri

Another absurd "what if" article by a Reds writer. Almost none of those ideas are realistic and even fewer address the team's real issues. Why would Walt want to give up all of that for Roberts, who's going to be VERY expensive next year?

My solution: that the Reds should look to focus on two areas: SS and two relief pitchers. Signing Affeldt or Reyes solves the LHRP slot, and I feel good about one of those two signing with Cincinnati. The SS problem I'm afraid may never get address, though it'd be a good idea to use Edwin or Phillips as trade bait if necessary.

What's so unrealistic about it? The defense is a huge issue for this team and I've always wondered why everyone is so unwilling to try Phillips at short but perfectly fine with unbelievable crap like Keppinger or Hairston there. Roberts would be a great fit for this team because the manager needs an idiot-proof lineup and there's no better place to start than a no-brainer leadoff hitter keeping the Corey Pattersons of the world far far away. I also like the idea of moving EE to left as he could hardly be worse than Dunn there and his offense may benefit from the reduced responsibility on defense. There is organizational depth at third and the Keppinger/ Gonzalez platoon is a good stopgap idea. The only real issue I have with the article is whether Roberts will even be available, though if he is, the Reds would seem to have a better shot at him than some of the other teams that will be after him.

[Mitri]

Well for the record I've never been fine with crap like Keppinger or Hairston at SS. The team's SS ethos since the Larkin era have been to slot any guy who qualifies as an infielder with a decent arm into the position and forget about it. And that has been a huge liability with the squads for six years going. Defense up the middle in general, save for Phillips these last three years, has been atrocious. The pitching has suffered.

But Roberts isn't the solution. I'd be all for Phillips to SS if it could realistically happen. I think there's a reason it hasn't happened. We would've seen it last year had it been possible. I think he'd be as good as Hairston at SS, sure, but would it help to the team to move a gold-glove caliber 2B to SS just so we had a slightly better SS? Doubtful.

On top of that, Roberts will be expensive to trade for. The O's will ask for more young talent than I am willing to give up at this point. And in a few years, when this team will really be primed for the postseason, Roberts will be simply unaffordable. I'd just assume our FO to stay away from Roberts, however talented he may be, and look for a long-term solution at the middle infield situation.

[Natty Redlocks]

Originally Posted by Mitri

Well for the record I've never been fine with crap like Keppinger or Hairston at SS. The team's SS ethos since the Larkin era have been to slot any guy who qualifies as an infielder with a decent arm into the position and forget about it. And that has been a huge liability with the squads for six years going. Defense up the middle in general, save for Phillips these last three years, has been atrocious. The pitching has suffered.

But Roberts isn't the solution. I'd be all for Phillips to SS if it could realistically happen. I think there's a reason it hasn't happened. We would've seen it last year had it been possible. I think he'd be as good as Hairston at SS, sure, but would it help to the team to move a gold-glove caliber 2B to SS just so we had a slightly better SS? Doubtful.

On top of that, Roberts will be expensive to trade for. The O's will ask for more young talent than I am willing to give up at this point. And in a few years, when this team will really be primed for the postseason, Roberts will be simply unaffordable. I'd just assume our FO to stay away from Roberts, however talented he may be, and look for a long-term solution at the middle infield situation.

I think the reason Phillips to SS hasn't happened is that they didn't want to risk messing with his offense, as they've been treating him as a middle-of-the-order type run producer. Which he isn't. In my mind, moving him to short maximizes his value as he's the best defensive infielder the team has, and gives them a pretty good bat at a defense-oriented position. Presumably, the new left fielder would take over the cleanup spot, allowing Phillips to move down and have less pressure to perform offensively. This is all regardless of whether they trade for someone like Roberts or just bring back Hairston and stick him there, which seems much more likely anyway. I'd be all for getting a good young SS with upside, but I just don't see it happening.

[redsfandan]

IF we have the same problem at short next year then i'm sure the idea will come back up. now it's just an assumption that we'll have that problem. is the last couple years an indication of the next 5+ years for agon or is it just a big blip? only time will tell. but since we already have $5 million invested in him i'd like to see if we could find a place for a decent cheap (versatile) backup just in case for '09.

and more importantly if we deal prospects for an infielder i'd prefer it to be a top ss prospect. it would make sense to deal from an area of strength (3rd base/left field prospects) to improve a weakness (ss prospects) that could help us for 5-10 years (and at a cheaper price) instead of 1-4 years of a player that would cost much more.

[Gamble]

"Yankees General Manager Brian Cashman (wearing sandals in the spirit of Southern California) sat on the back porch that overlooks the hotel’s golf course and the Pacific Ocean with Reds General Manager Walt Jocketty for about a half-hour."

I wonder if that conversation has anything to do with Cano? The Yankees have expressed interest in Hudson with the intentions of having him switch to CF. But if Cashman can unload Cano this could make a little more sense.