Is this world just nuts????

[Cyclone792]

Originally Posted by TeamCasey

Has anyone ever been in a riot situation?

Actually when we were in New York this past summer for the Reds/Yanks series, there was one interesting subway experience as we headed to one of the games. With everyone heading to the Bronx, the subways get pretty packed and sometimes you have to wait for several trains before you're able to find some areas to hop on.

Well one group during one stop decided they weren't going to wait any longer and tried to bull rush their way on to the train. I could feel myself getting lifted up and being moved due to the sheer force of the crowd trying to push their way in. Despite yelling at the crowd telling them to knock it off since there wasn't any room, they kept pushing. It wasn't until voices got raised and the profanity started flying that the outside crowd realized that the train was beyond capacity.

[durl]

Honestly, I have a hard time faulting Wal-Mart in this situation. At some point, the people in line have to take some responsibility for their behavior. These people weren't struggling to get away from a disaster of some sort; they were shopping...trying to save a few bucks.

In a common sense world, people act in such a way that they keep such things in perspective and respect those around them. Wal-Mart isn't responsible for people acting like starving animals fighting for a meal. Reasonable security is one thing; the behavior of the people in that line shouldn't be softened because there weren't police keeping shoppers from killing someone.

[Yachtzee]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Jethro Tull at the Riverfront Coliseum 8 months prior to the Who Concert tragedy, same situation as the Who concert, surging crowd, one door and screaming people... I fell down (I was 14 and weighed 100 pounds) someone stepped on me and this huge guy reached down and grabbed me and flung me forward to my feet and towards the door.

He's my all time hero.

Something similar happened to me. I was working one of the Lollapalooza shows at Blossom Music Center. My shift ended, so I took off my staff shirt, but still had my ID around my neck, and went down to the pit to catch NIN. I was standing at the back of the pit, by some barriers when some kids broke through the barriers and started rushing the stage. One of the barriers hit me in the knee and I got trapped under it as people ran over me. A guy with a mohawk and a girl with pink hair each grabbed an arm and pulled me up, saving my life. I lost them in the sea of people, but I repay them by lending a hand whenever I see someone in trouble.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by durl

Honestly, I have a hard time faulting Wal-Mart in this situation. At some point, the people in line have to take some responsibility for their behavior. These people weren't struggling to get away from a disaster of some sort; they were shopping...trying to save a few bucks.

In a common sense world, people act in such a way that they keep such things in perspective and respect those around them. Wal-Mart isn't responsible for people acting like starving animals fighting for a meal. Reasonable security is one thing; the behavior of the people in that line shouldn't be softened because there weren't police keeping shoppers from killing someone.

Yes, those people need to take responsibility but there were thousands of stores all over the country - including other Wal Marts - that didn't have a similar incident. So either the people who shop that Wal Mart are bloodthirsty animals that can't control themselves, or that particular Wal Mart screwed up.

[durl]

Originally Posted by Chip R

Yes, those people need to take responsibility but there were thousands of stores all over the country - including other Wal Marts - that didn't have a similar incident. So either the people who shop that Wal Mart are bloodthirsty animals that can't control themselves, or that particular Wal Mart screwed up.

I'll pick A.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by durl

I'll pick A.

I'd say that is unlikely. It fits a neat narrative (personal responsibility of the MOB; that's new one), but I see no reason to believe that these people alone were doing something that millions of other Americans wouldn't do under the very same circumstances.

Maybe this particular store was located on a hellmouth that turned two thousand people into evil demons.

[WMR]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

I'd say that is unlikely. It fits a neat narrative (personal responsibility of the MOB; that's new one), but I see no reason to believe that these people alone were doing something that millions of other Americans wouldn't do under the very same circumstances.

Maybe this particular store was located on a hellmouth that turned two thousand people into evil demons.

Indian burial ground, perchance?

The store definitely bears the brunt of the liability for this incident.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS

Indian burial ground, perchance?

The store definitely bears the brunt of the liability for this incident.

Its a sad day when a store or a corporation is forced to take the responsibility for human beings acting like rabid dogs.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Its a sad day when a store or a corporation is forced to take the responsibility for human beings acting like rabid dogs.

Why?

Again, other stores found ways to stem situations like this.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Maybe this particular store was located on a hellmouth that turned two thousand people into evil demons.

So you're saying that Buffy would have been more use than more security?

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Why?

Again, other stores found ways to stem situations like this.

So your saying that the shoppers behavior was acceptable?!?!? From the reports I have heard the shoppers unhinged the doors from the outside.

[Ltlabner]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

So your saying that the shoppers behavior was acceptable?!?!? From the reports I have heard the shoppers unhinged the doors from the outside.

The better question is did the shoppers behavior at the stores that didn't have problems differ from the shoppers at the stores that did?

Just because the crowds might have been big at both stores doesn't mean the shoppers at both stores acted the same way.

Just as because both stores had Wall-Mart on the marquee doesn't mean they both handled the crowd the same way. If you are going to question Wall-Mart (which is reasonable) you have to ask the same question of the shoppers.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by Ltlabner

The better question is did the shoppers behavior at the stores that didn't have problems differ from the shoppers at the stores that did?

Just because the crowds might have been big at both stores doesn't mean the shoppers at both stores acted the same way.

Just as just because both stores had Wall-Mart on the marquee doesn't mean they both handled the crowd the same way. If you are going to question Wall-Mart you have to ask the same question of the shoppers.

Both the store and the shoppers are at fault. This isn't an either/or answer. Some people in here have compared this incident to the Who concert here back in the 70s. Does that mean that Cincinnatians are horrible, horrible monsters or that it was a problem with the ticket setup and the security since nothing similar has happened there since? It doesn't excuse their actions but it's going to be a lot easier to find Wal Mart responsible than a mass of people - most of whom are unidentifiable. If they can identify someone who stomped that poor guy, prosecute the hell out of them. But that's going to be easier said than done.

[durl]

So are we now to the point that we need uber-security in, say movie theaters, because everybody in there may go crazy because they didn't like the movie? Sure, I don't expect people to act like that at a movie theater, but I also don't expect them to trample a store employee in a rush to get a toy at a discount.

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by durl

So are we now to the point that we need uber-security in, say movie theaters, because everybody in there may go crazy because they didn't like the movie? Sure, I don't expect people to act like that at a movie theater, but I also don't expect them to trample a store employee in a rush to get a toy at a discount.

How many of these incidents have we had at movie theaters?