Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

[_Sir_Charles_]

nothing to see here

[TRF]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

Okay. What the hell is your point there? If you get a lot of walks you'll have a high OBP? Thanks for the enlightenment. Or are you trying to compare Taveras to those top 10 BB guys? I certainly don't recall anybody saying Taveras was an above average player at the plate.

So he's not above average at the plate.

Why the hell would anyone want him leading off then?

My point is simple. Taveras cannot sustain a high OBP, a prerequisite for being a leadoff hitter without gaudy BB totals.

Taveras will never BB more than 40 times. He will K anywhare from 80-100 times and not walk more than 40. Add to the mix his COMPLETE lack of power and you have a recipe for a pretty bad ball player.

[mth123]

From Fay's blog:

Here's a little bit of Willy Taveras from a conference call (I believe he was in the security line at the Miami airport at the time):

--"It's a young team. I think I fit in well. I'll come in and play hard. I'm happy to play for Dusty (Baker)."

--"It's an opportunity to play every day, no matter what happened the day before."
--"A couple of team were interested. The best situation was with the Reds. i really like playing in the Central division. I feel lucky to play for Dusty."

--"I got a call from agent (shortly after he was non-tendered by Colorado). He said the Reds were really interested."

--On Jamie Quirk, Reds special assistant: "Jamie knows me really well. He always tells me to stay on top of my game. He knows what kind of talent I have."

--On Dusty Baker: "I've heard from plenty of guys that he lets you do what you do well. I'm looking forward to playing for him."

[Spring~Fields]

The Reds lineup could not hit right handed pitching last year, the pitching where they get the most AB/PA against.

Willy Taveras
2008 vs. Right .245 .303 .291 .594
2007 vs. Right .304 .351 .357 .708
2006 vs. Right .285 .338 .345 .683
2005 vs. Right .312 .344 .351 .695

Ramon Hernandez
2008 vs. Right .245 .305 .421 .726
2007 vs. Right .261 .334 .366 .700
2006 vs. Right .270 .324 .444 .768
2005 vs. Right .304 .333 .464 .797

Anyone see any improvement for the Reds lineup/batters against the right handed pitchers?
Someone show me, I just can’t see it. Plus Baker we have seen is the master strategist.

[Will M]

Walt Jocketty on the Willy Taveras signing:

--"He fills a couple of needs. He gives us very good defense in center field, and he's potentially a very good leadoff man."

Jocketty sadi in order to do that Taveras has to get his on-base percentage close to .367 like it was in the 2007, rather than the .308 it was last season: "He needs to get back to way he was swinging the bat and getting on base a couple of years ago. Jamie Quirk, who's with us now was with Willy in Colorado, feels like Willy can get back to that."

[Raisor]

Sir Charles

Who had the better season (these are real players from a real past season)?

1. .324/.381/.534 669 PA's
2. .266/.388/.569 681 PA's.

It's actually a trick question. They had essentially the same season, they just went about it in different ways.

[SteelSD]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

My only point was that players with walk-based OBP still get slumps both in regards to hits AND walks.

What you're not getting is that high-IsoD players do not turn into production black holes as often as low-IsoD players. That's the point original point and you've done nothing to effectively contest it. Because Taveras has so little plate discipline, he's a complete negative when the hits aren't falling. That's not the case with high-IsoD players, because they have a highly-developed secondary on-base skill set.

[top6]

Just wanted to pile on and say this is a horrible and embarassing (for the people who work for Reds - not for me) signing.

This:

-"It's an opportunity to play every day, no matter what happened the day before."

also scares the crap out of me; very reminiscent of the Arroyo comment when he signed about how there is no pressure to win here. (Note, the Reds have not won since that time.)

Nothing has changed and nothing ever will. This is just a horrible, horrible organization, with 3 owners in a row who either don't get it or don't care about winning. Pretty sad state of affairs when Marge Schott is the best Cincinnati sports owner in almost 2 decades (since Paul Brown died).

[Falls City Beer]

Something tells me that a deal for Dye was worked out but got shot down by Cast because of money. Walt's going to have to get used to working in relative poverty. Not sure this is the way to do it, though. I think it's likely that we'll see another salary get dumped before any offense gets added.

Bronson Arroyo I'm lookin' at you.

[top6]

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

Walks are a pause in a rally...a hit builds the momentum emotionally.

So your response to the mountain of statistics and numbers thrown at you is that walks are not as good as hits because walks are less emotional?

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

Losing Dunn & Griffey hurts in the HR department, but the improvement of the kids and the improved defense should balance things out considerably I think.

Even if you are right, and the improved speed and defense does "balance ... out" the loss of Griffey and Dunn's offensive production, doesn't that mean the Reds have a losing season again? They need to replace Griffey and Dunn AND add something else.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by top6

So your response to the mountain of statistics and numbers thrown at you is that walks are not as good as hits because walks are less emotional?


Even if you are right, and the improved speed and defense does "balance ... out" the loss of Griffey and Dunn's offensive production, doesn't that mean the Reds have a losing season again? They need to replace Griffey and Dunn AND add something else.

They don't need to "replace" Griffey. He was a sinkhole last season when you consider his offense measured against his defense. I think the biggest single improvement everyone will notice next season is Griffey being replaced by Bruce.

[top6]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Something tells me that a deal for Dye was worked out but got shot down by Cast because of money. Walt's going to have to get used to working in relative poverty. Not sure this is the way to do it, though. I think it's likely that we'll see another salary get dumped before any offense gets added.

Bronson Arroyo I'm lookin' at you.

I don't know about this. I have a lot of smart Sox fans friends, and none of them were excited about the Dye trade. I don't think the Reds really had anything that they wanted (that the Reds were willing to give away, that is).

I loathe the Taveras signing for a lot of reasons, but I am not sure there is that much they could have done. Who is an outfielder they could have signed? It actually would have been nice - for me - if they had done nothing instead of something - like this - that is really just a PR move, so the casual fan (and the Allen Cutlers of the world) can say they are doing something.

In any event, I certainly hope you are wrong that he needs to shed salary, but in this economy anything is possible and I honestly have no idea where most of Castelinis's money was made (and whether he is in serious trouble).

[Raisor]

If Willy T gets 650-700 PA's in the leadoff spot in 2008, it's going to be a net loss of somewhere around 10-15 runs over last year.

That negates the positive of the Hernandez for Bako tradeoff.

Votto might have 5-10 more runs in him over 08.

That's going to be a lot of pressure on Bruce and whomever plays LF.

[TRF]

I'd have preferred to gamble on Dickerson in CF. Let one of the kids win the LF/1B/3B job and find a real SS.

Instead we'll get to watch a certainty in CF (certain to be bad), gamble on Dickerson in LF and not address SS at all.


yippee.

[Reds Fanatic]

If this team goes into next season with Taveras as the everyday CF and Hairston as the everyday LF this could be one of the worst offensive teams the Reds have had in a long time. It is amazing this team once again fails to realize the value of OBP in a leadoff hitter.