Reds sign Willy Taveras to 2 year deal....

[membengal]

Sir Charles: It's NOT just the OBP issues. I wish that were only it. Somewhere, in one of the other Tavares threads, I, and others, documented his SLG issues. To say he swings a wet noodle at the plate is to insult wet noodles. He's absolutely useless with the bat in his hands. Useless.

The ONLY way he doesn't affirimitvely hurt this team is if he miraculously OBPs .375 this year. A batting average driven .375. Which means he will need to hit about .335. And, with his lack of power, that is just about impossible.

Go look again at his career SLG. I will wait. Look at it for individual seasons. And consider how horrible it is going to be when he gets 600 at-bats for this team. If he is not getting on base, he is useless. Completely and totally useless. And his getting on base is largely dependant on being hit lucky. Uber-hit lucky. And I gotta say, the odds of him being such in a small park like GABP compared to the wide expanses of Coors which will allow more than the usual number of bloop hits, well, they're not good.

This is an awful signing, for all the reasons that were laid out on this board in about five threads this off-season, as we all cringed at what was coming. It makes the climb to, um, .500 that much harder, and it darn near puts a bullet in the brain of hopes for a WC chase for this team.

Par for the course, I suppose. What we have come to expect from this waste of a franchise, anymore, I guess.

ETA: His stats at baseballrefernce.com

http://www.baseball-reference.com/t/taverwi01.shtml

His career HIGH for SLG is .382. That's it. That's his high. His norm? For slugging? For SLUGGING? .337. That's horrible. On so many levels that the mind reels...

[KronoRed]

You know how this is a bad signing?

Even the sun deck hates it

[Raisor]

Originally Posted by KronoRed

You know how this is a bad signing?

Even the sun deck hates it

Last time I looked Reds.com mb was so in love with it they wanted to marry it.

[membengal]

By the way, somone asked upthread what numbers Tavares will need to make the doubters happy. Well, THIS doubter will need to see a:

.370 OBP with a .350 SLG. That would give him a .720 OPS.

Which would a l m o s t get him to the point where he isn't completely harming the team. I mean, really, it is hard to under-estimate just how awful that man's slugging is with respect to his "game".

But, hey, he OPS's .720, and I will call that a "win" for Jocketty. For finding and signing a guy who, in the best case scenario, is worse than league average. More than likely, he's gonna OPS around .650. Which is tragic. And fatal to this club.

Whole thing blows.

[Johnny Footstool]

he makes juan pierre look like teddy ballgame

[remdog]

Still waiting to hear what the dollar amount was on this deal.

Since the Nats signed C. Patterson for $650K for one year it would seem somewhat logical that if the Reds spent more than $1.3M for two years of Wet Willie, they will have overpaid.

Rem

[Spitball]

I'm not saying I like the Willy T. signing, but I'm not going to let his signing ruin my outlook for 2009-2010.

In four full seasons he has played on three winning teams. He has appeared in two World series. I like his defense though I think he plays a little too deeply for my tastes. He has a strong, accurate arm. He should turn 27 years old as a Red which is an age Bill James feels is the most likely to produce a career season.

He may suck beyond belief, but I'm willing to wait and see how the big picture of the total season pans out.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Originally Posted by remdog

Still waiting to hear what the dollar amount was on this deal.

Since the Nats signed C. Patterson for $650K for one year it would seem somewhat logical that if the Reds spent more than $1.3M for two years of Wet Willie, they will have overpaid.

Rem

Same here. Why are they keeping the particulars of a fringe signing so hush-hush?

[RedLegSuperStar]

C.Trent says the Reds have talked with the Yankees about there outfielders.. I say bring in Nick Swisher!

[KronoRed]

Originally Posted by Blitz Dorsey

Same here. Why are they keeping the particulars of a fringe signing so hush-hush?

This is no fringe signing, this is our starting CF and lead off hitter, 600 at bats just landed in town.

Woo.

[fearofpopvol1]

I want to know what the money is. 2 years is too long though. I would've been able to swallow a 1 year deal, with the hope that Stubbs would've been ready for '10 (or to see if Dickerson could've handled half of the ABs). But 2 years is scary.

I do agree with FCB though that I don't this move damns the Reds. It doesn't help them, but addressing the SS position and and the 3B/LF position are more important.

[westofyou]

Reds CF OPS vs the League CF's with 200 PA's since the league was broken into divisions

CINCINNATI REDS
SEASON
1969-2008
CF
OBA displayed only--not a sorting criteria
SLG displayed only--not a sorting criteria
RUNS CREATED/GAME displayed only--not a sorting criteria
PLATE APPEARANCES displayed only--not a sorting criteria

OPS                           YEAR     DIFF   PLAYER   LEAGUE     OBA      SLG     RC/G      PA     
1    Jon Nunnally             1997     .249    1.002     .753     .400     .602     9.38      231   
2    Eric Davis               1989     .237     .908     .672     .367     .541     6.71      542   
3    Eric Davis               1987     .213     .991     .778     .399     .593     9.57      562   
4    Ken Griffey Jr.          2005     .186     .946     .760     .369     .576     7.80      555   
5    Josh Hamilton            2007     .170     .922     .752     .368     .554     7.18      337   
6    Ken Griffey Jr.          2003     .165     .936     .771     .370     .566     7.48      201   
7    Ken Griffey Jr.          2001     .161     .898     .737     .365     .533     7.02      417   
8    Eric Davis               1996     .158     .917     .759     .394     .523     7.56      496   
9    Ken Griffey Jr.          2000     .153     .942     .789     .387     .556     7.87      631   
10   Eric Davis               1988     .153     .852     .700     .363     .489     6.68      543   
11   Ken Griffey Jr.          2004     .098     .864     .766     .351     .513     6.23      348   
12   Roberto Kelly            1993     .097     .829     .732     .354     .475     6.06      342   
13   Eric Davis               1990     .091     .833     .743     .347     .486     6.21      518   
14   Reggie Sanders           1992     .085     .819     .734     .356     .462     5.86      438   
15   Bobby Tolan              1970     .083     .860     .777     .384     .475     6.81      675   
16   Bobby Tolan              1969     .078     .821     .743     .347     .474     5.84      691   
17   Ken Griffey Sr.          1981     .075     .780     .705     .370     .409     5.64      442   
18   Cesar Geronimo           1976     .072     .795     .723     .382     .414     6.24      555   
19   Cesar Cedeno             1982     .045     .758     .713     .346     .413     4.74      543   
20   Ken Griffey Jr.          2006     .043     .802     .759     .316     .486     4.98      472   
21   Eddie Milner             1986     .037     .762     .725     .317     .446     4.83      462   
22   Eric Davis               1991     .035     .739     .704     .353     .386     5.14      340   
23   Juan Encarnacion         2002     .034     .804     .770     .330     .474     5.31      354   
24   Mike Cameron             1999     .033     .825     .792     .357     .469     6.20      636   
25   Eric Davis               1984     .021     .786     .765     .320     .466     5.44      200   
26   Dave Collins             1980     .015     .736     .721     .366     .370     5.58      613   
27   Ken Griffey Jr.          2002     .014     .784     .770     .358     .426     5.16      232   
28   Ruben Rivera             2001     .009     .747     .737     .321     .426     4.43      290   
29   Thomas Howard            1995     .008     .752     .744     .350     .402     5.17      304   
30   Jacob Brumfield          1993     .008     .740     .732     .321     .419     4.82      299   
31   Norris Hopper            2007     .007     .758     .752     .371     .388     5.23      335   
32   Ryan Freel               2006     .004     .762     .759     .363     .399     5.55      523   
33   Eddie Milner             1983     .002     .734     .732     .350     .384     4.78      584   
34   Cesar Geronimo           1974     .000     .739     .739     .345     .395     4.77      530   
35   Herm Winningham          1989    -.001     .671     .672     .316     .355     3.90      278   
36   Reggie Sanders           1998    -.003     .764     .767     .346     .418     5.01      545   
37   Bobby Tolan              1972    -.004     .720     .724     .334     .386     4.42      667   
38   Eddie Milner             1985    -.022     .688     .710     .342     .347     4.51      520   
39   Cesar Geronimo           1977    -.026     .709     .735     .321     .388     4.17      538   
40   Cesar Geronimo           1978    -.037     .664     .701     .329     .334     3.73      351   
41   Cesar Geronimo           1975    -.047     .690     .737     .327     .363     4.24      557   
42   George Foster            1971    -.050     .675     .726     .289     .386     3.16      402   
43   Reggie Taylor            2002    -.050     .719     .770     .291     .429     3.66      311   
44   Dave Martinez            1992    -.057     .677     .734     .323     .354     3.92      445   
45   Deion Sanders            1997    -.060     .693     .753     .329     .363     4.74      509   
46   Cesar Geronimo           1979    -.064     .655     .719     .312     .343     3.51      400   
47   Deion Sanders            1994    -.075     .700     .776     .342     .359     4.50      203   
48   Eddie Milner             1984    -.089     .676     .765     .333     .342     4.04      397   
49   Ryan Freel               2007    -.097     .655     .752     .308     .347     3.65      304   
50   Curtis Goodwin           1997    -.131     .622     .753     .316     .306     3.01      297   
51   Cesar Geronimo           1973    -.158     .574     .732     .266     .309     2.56      358   
52   Corey Patterson          2008    -.169     .582     .751     .238     .344     2.51      392   
53   Bobby Tolan              1973    -.177     .555     .732     .251     .304     2.24      501  

[durl]

I'm going to say that Taverus will end up doing good in Cincinnati.

If I'm right, it makes me look like a genius. If I'm wrong, I'll blame it on a desire to be contrary to the tidal wave of disapproval.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Originally Posted by KronoRed

This is no fringe signing, this is our starting CF and lead off hitter, 600 at bats just landed in town.

Woo.

Fringe in the overall MLB sense. This isn't exactly a headline-drawing signing across the country. If this was Krivsky, he probably would have given him $6 million over 2 years. Since it's Walt, I'm a little more optimistic the Reds got him on the cheap.

(And yes, I know many will argue nothing could be cheap enough for Taveras.)

[remdog]

Originally Posted by durl

I'm going to say that Taverus will end up doing good in Cincinnati.

If I'm right, it makes me look like a genius. If I'm wrong, I'll blame it on a desire to be contrary to the tidal wave of disapproval.

Willie could very well end up doing good in Cincinnati. He could volenteer in a soup kitchen, appear as the 'player to be dunked' at a charity event, collect 'Toys for Tots'. That would be 'doing good'.

Baseball? Can he play well? I'd guess not.

Rem