Mel Kiper's Big Board

[AmarilloRed]

Originally Posted by Emin3mShady07

The Bears need a WR and Kiper has them drafting a DE. Great. Since we already have 3 talented pass rushers off the edge let's add another. Typical Jerry Angelo move.

Kiper has the top 3 WRs coming off the board by the time the Bears pick at #18. As Bears fans, we should hope that Florida's Percy Harvin doesn't go to the Jets at #17 as predicted by Mel.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

There are very few true "shutdown" CBs in the NFL anymore. Part of that is due to the proliferation of the "Tampa 2" defensive scheme -- which reduces the need for a CB to be able to cover a receiver 1 on 1 in space. Part of the reason is that WRs like Randy Moss and Larry Fitzgerald have become so big and strong while retaining their speed that it's difficult to find DBs who can cover them alone. It also doesn't help that the current state of NFL officiating is designed to handcuff the defensive secondary and encourage explosive plays in the passing game.

The better strategy, IMO, is to get good (not great) CBs and then concentrate on improving the front 7 so that pressure gets to the QB before downfield routes have time to develop and that any throws that are made are made under pressure.

The reality of the modern NFL is that any competent QB will beat a defensive secondary and find an open man if he has enough time to make his progressions. Disrupt the timing with pressure and only the best of the best will be able to consistently make plays.

Well said CE

[Redhook]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

Re-Sign Ghiacuic - I know he has his problems I for one think he stinks at run blocking, but you know how they work and at least he can pass block pretty well. If nothing else, if they get TJ signed early enough they can franchise Ghiacuic for a year and draft a replacement in the 2nd or 3rd round.

Wow. Franchise Ghiacuic? One of the worst Centers in the NFL, and maybe the worst, and you want to pay him Top 5 money? Wow.

I agree with most of what you wrote, but Ghiacuic is really bad. Like you said, he stinks at blocking for the run, and I believe he's just as bad pass-blocking. It got so comical last year that I would spend time during a game counting how many times Ghiacuic got trampled by a D-Lineman.

Ghiacuic, at best, should be a backup. He is the main reason why the offensive is so poor. They must get a bigger better center this offseason to have any chance of having a successful offense next year.

[OesterPoster]

Originally Posted by Redhook

Wow. Franchise Ghiacuic? One of the worst Centers in the NFL, and maybe the worst, and you want to pay him Top 5 money? Wow.

I agree with most of what you wrote, but Ghiacuic is really bad. Like you said, he stinks at blocking for the run, and I believe he's just as bad pass-blocking. It got so comical last year that I would spend time during a game counting how many times Ghiacuic got trampled by a D-Lineman.

Ghiacuic, at best, should be a backup. He is the main reason why the offensive is so poor. They must get a bigger better center this offseason to have any chance of having a successful offense next year.

Exactly. I can't conceive how any fan can think Ghiacuic is even average at center, if they've been watching games. He's horrible, and it's arguably the most important position on the offensive line. I lost track of how many times he got shoved back into the middle of the "pocket", or whatever it was. He seriously looked like he was wearing roller skates multiple times throughout the year.

[Boss-Hog]

I can't get behind any idea that has them bringing back essentially the same poor offensive line they fielded last year - particularly the "center piece" of it.

I'm also not convinced Antwan Odom is a difference maker at DE, despite being paid as one. Like most, I was concerned that he benefited in 2007 playing on the same DL as two Pro Bowlers and last year did nothing to ease those concerns.

If I'm the Bengals, one of my top priorities needs to figure out why Robert Geathers's play has dropped off the past two years. Here's a guy who had 10.5 sacks in 2006, was rewarded with a lucrative contract extension and has been a non-factor rushing the passer the past two years. I understand that sacks aren't everything, and QB pressures can be equally effective, but I don't see him (or anyone) consistently get pressure on opposing QBs. Sure, having better DTs would help him and everyone else, but he didn't have much to work with there in 2006, either, and he still had a very nice year. I just hope it wasn't a career year due in part to playing for an extension.

[Redhook]

Originally Posted by Boss-Hog

I'm also not convinced Antwan Odom is a difference maker at DE, despite being paid as one. Like most, I was concerned that he benefited in 2007 playing on the same DL as two Pro Bowlers and last year did nothing to ease those concerns.

If I'm the Bengals, one of my top priorities needs to figure out why Robert Geathers's play has dropped off the past two years. Here's a guy who had 10.5 sacks in 2006, was rewarded with a lucrative contract extension and has been a non-factor rushing the passer the past two years. I understand that sacks aren't everything, and QB pressures can be equally effective, but I don't see him (or anyone) consistently get pressure on opposing QBs. Sure, having better DTs would help him and everyone else, but he didn't have much to work with there in 2006, either, and he still had a very nice year. I just hope it wasn't a career year due in part to playing for an extension.

I'm not sure what's happened to Geathers either. I do know he was mishandled mightily in 2007 switching between LB and DE. That was an ignorant move by the Bengals. Last year, though, I thought he would be back to a decent DE.

I believe their D-Line is a bunch of average players, no difference makers. Not one guy on that line demands a double-team. I truely believe that if they Bengals can get one stud on that line it would make a world of difference. And it could be at any position, not necessarily an end.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by Redhook

Wow. Franchise Ghiacuic? One of the worst Centers in the NFL, and maybe the worst, and you want to pay him Top 5 money? Wow.

I agree with most of what you wrote, but Ghiacuic is really bad. Like you said, he stinks at blocking for the run, and I believe he's just as bad pass-blocking. It got so comical last year that I would spend time during a game counting how many times Ghiacuic got trampled by a D-Lineman.

Ghiacuic, at best, should be a backup. He is the main reason why the offensive is so poor. They must get a bigger better center this offseason to have any chance of having a successful offense next year.

Maybe I wasn't specific enough. What I wrote is what I think they will do, not what I wanna do.

Personally I am no fan of Ghiacuic but he's ranked higher than most FA center's. I do think people are overstating his lack of ability at pass blocking I happen to think he's good enough there. But I do agree he is the worst lineman we have (when all are healthy).

[WMR]

I wish we would've kept Steinbach and converted him full time to a center.

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by Boss-Hog

I can't get behind any idea that has them bringing back essentially the same poor offensive line they fielded last year - particularly the "center piece" of it.

I'm also not convinced Antwan Odom is a difference maker at DE, despite being paid as one. Like most, I was concerned that he benefited in 2007 playing on the same DL as two Pro Bowlers and last year did nothing to ease those concerns.

If I'm the Bengals, one of my top priorities needs to figure out why Robert Geathers's play has dropped off the past two years. Here's a guy who had 10.5 sacks in 2006, was rewarded with a lucrative contract extension and has been a non-factor rushing the passer the past two years. I understand that sacks aren't everything, and QB pressures can be equally effective, but I don't see him (or anyone) consistently get pressure on opposing QBs. Sure, having better DTs would help him and everyone else, but he didn't have much to work with there in 2006, either, and he still had a very nice year. I just hope it wasn't a career year due in part to playing for an extension.

I am not necc. convinced about Odom myself but I am also not convinced he isn't either, I think it remains to be seen. As far as this past season well he was hurt from day one (shoulder) so I am not sure we ever seen a healthy Odom. And as for much money as they are paying him I imagine we'll have at least another season to find out.

On Geathers I think as Redhook eluded to his '07 you can't really blame on him as he played LB and DT along with DE that season. And he was also hurt for part of this past season so I'm not sure we need to look beyond those 2 issues. But here's a possibility, it's hard to pin your ears back and get after the QB when your offense has the ball for very little time and isn't doing anything with it when they do. He had 2.5 sacks, 12 hurries and 56 tackles in 11 games (games 1-11).

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by WilyMoROCKS

I wish we would've kept Steinbach and converted him full time to a center.

Keeping Steinbach was my 1st thought as well. I wanted to sign him and then whoever else between Williams and Willie. The guy is an excellent pulling guard, darn near prototypical LG. But yeah we then could have moved him to Center where he would have held his own.

[Newport Red]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

Maybe I wasn't specific enough. What I wrote is what I think they will do, not what I wanna do.

Personally I am no fan of Ghiacuic but he's ranked higher than most FA center's. I do think people are overstating his lack of ability at pass blocking I happen to think he's good enough there. But I do agree he is the worst lineman we have (when all are healthy).

If it is true that the Bengals are going to emphasize the run next year, signing Ghiacuic would be a disaster. And I do agree, they probably will sign him.

[Sea Ray]

I'd like to know how many minutes the Bengals had a lead while he was healthy in 2008. He rarely had opportunities to pressure the QB. Basically I'm not worried about him. They've got other holes to fill

[icehole3]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

Maybe I wasn't specific enough. What I wrote is what I think they will do, not what I wanna do.

Personally I am no fan of Ghiacuic but he's ranked higher than most FA center's. I do think people are overstating his lack of ability at pass blocking I happen to think he's good enough there. But I do agree he is the worst lineman we have (when all are healthy).

Im not trying to bust your chops, but who's rankings are you looking at because Girlcheck cant be ranked that high, I was looking at NFL.com and there's about a half dozen centers on the free agent market. I can see the Bengals throwing some money at Saturday or a Birk. Even being as incompetent as they are they have been able to focus on one position group and grab a guy to fill a need thru free agency. They must resign Benson or this off season will be a failure IMO. As far the draft they need to stick to their draft board, when they reach they get burned. BPA on their board, grab the guy and just move onto the next round, remember whoever they draft will be holding out anyway.

[Hoosier Red]

I'd be happy with the off season if;

1. Re sign Benson
2. Sign Birk
3. Draft a Tackle and a Center high in the draft(in the first three rounds.)
4. Trade Chad Ocho Cinco

In my mind, if there's a decent line in front of him, Carson can throw to anyone. With that in mind, I think fewer dollars need to be spent on WR's(I'm okay with letting TJ go too, though I'd prefer to keep him.)

[icehole3]

a couple of free agent center rankings

http://www.walterfootball.com/freeagents2009C.php
http://cin.scout.com/a.z?s=117&p=9&c...83&rc=16&pid=9