Weathers, Reds avoid arbitration with $3.9M deal

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by corkedbat

We needed a LHer n the pen and I might have preferred another, but I'm OK with Rhodes. I'm OK with Hairston too. Weathers, Taveras and Lincoln represent about $8;5Mthat could have been better spent elsewhere, IMO.

As it probably stands now:

1B Votto
2B Phillips
SS A. Gonzalez
3B Encarnacion
LF Dickerson
CF Taveras
RF Bruce
CA Hernanadez

UT Hairston
UT Keppinger
Of Gomes
OF Hopper (or maybe) L Gonzalez
CA Hannigan

Volquez
Harang
Arroyo
Cueto
Owings
Massett/Ramirez
Lincoln
Bray
Weathers
Rhodes
Burton
Cordero

Move Dickerson into Taveras' spot in CF (sharing time with Hairston or Hopper), replace Dickerson in LF with Abreu or Dye (or even Swisher for that matter), give Massett Stormy's spot and substitute Roenicke or Fisher for Lincoln. They still might not be odds on favorites for the division (or even the WildCard), but they'd be much more interesting.

If Taveras' D is gonna make this team that much better, a ball better not touch the OF grass when the Reds are in the field.

The only strong feelings I have about Rhodes is that he's on the wrong side of 30. Other than that, we did need to replace Affeldt.

... so that's why I didn't bother to look up Rhodes' $ when looking at how much money we've burned on garbage this offseason. Giving Weathers almost $4 Mil is ridiculous, when we could easily have one of our young pups take his place. We have a handful of youngsters that could use some on the job training at the MLB level, but instead we're giving Weathers almost $4 Mil. Sure, on paper $2 Mil for a CF doesn't seem like much, but when you look at the fact we gave $2 Mil to a UT, it makes me raise an eyebrow. (you got some 'splainin to do Walt)

Wayne irked me with his wasteful spending, and so far this offseason Walt's proved to be no better than Wayne in that same regard.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

Danny Dorn? Todd Frazier? And what would you plan on doing with Alonso and Votto then? Play them both at first base?

Danny Dorn will need to be platooned (which is fine, but is he MLB ready now? I'm gonna have to say no on that one), and Frazier isn't an OF (unless we wanna label him as "athletic" and stick him in LF).

Votto's our 1B right now, and Alonso needs to force the issue to make the discussion of moving Votto to LF a reality. I hope Alonso does, but as of right now, Alonso's in the minors and a question mark.

[OnBaseMachine]

Originally Posted by Highlifeman21

Frazier isn't an OF (unless we wanna label him as "athletic" and stick him in LF).

Actually, Baseball America says Frazier is a good athlete for his size and has looked solid in left field. He can play either position and his future home depends on where the Reds need him most.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

Actually, Baseball America says Frazier is a good athlete for his size and has looked solid in left field. He can play either position and his future home depends on where the Reds need him most.

Warning - Dunn reference about to happen - Warning

Dunn's a good athlete for his size, yet he doesn't play a good LF.

The Reds need a SS the most, so does that mean Frazier's gonna play there?

... b/c IMO, he sure as heck isn't a MLB SS...

I hope for the Reds' sake and Todd Frazier's sake that both parties figure out his BEST position and get him the maximum available reps in AAA before he pours that 1st cup of coffee with the big club.

[OnBaseMachine]

Originally Posted by Highlifeman21

Warning - Dunn reference about to happen - Warning

Dunn's a good athlete for his size, yet he doesn't play a good LF.

The Reds need a SS the most, so does that mean Frazier's gonna play there?

... b/c IMO, he sure as heck isn't a MLB SS...

I hope for the Reds' sake and Todd Frazier's sake that both parties figure out his BEST position and get him the maximum available reps in AAA before he pours that 1st cup of coffee with the big club.

Frazier is no where near the size of Dunn. It's not even close. And who said anything about shortstop? His future is at third base or left field, depending on where the Reds need him the most.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

Frazier is no where near the size of Dunn. It's not even close. And who said anything about shortstop? His future is at third base or left field, depending on where the Reds need him the most.

I said SS b/c you said "where the Reds need him the most", and that's SS.

... but he ain't a SS, and we have a 3B, so that means LF is his future destination?

So if Frazier is "athletic for his size" as you said, then how athletic is he really?

[redsbuckeye]

Originally Posted by membengal

4 million here---Weathers

2 million there---Taveras

Another 2 million over there---Hairston

Another several million in across the way---Rhodes

Man, it sure adds up quickly, doesn't it? Before you know it, you can't afford a difference-making bat in a market where difference making bats are ripe for the taking with a reasonable contract.

Rats.

To be fair, Weathers was a gamble that busted on the fifth card.

The other guys?....well.....

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by redsbuckeye

To be fair, Weathers was a gamble that busted on the fifth card.

The other guys?....well.....

I hope Walt doesn't continue to chase to the river...

It was bad enough we saw the flop and the turn re: Weathers...

[redsbuckeye]

Originally Posted by Highlifeman21

I hope Walt doesn't continue to chase to the river...

It was bad enough we saw the flop and the turn re: Weathers...

Man my gambling references are awful, I was going for blackjack.

It's funny that best value the Reds could have gotten out of Weathers was him leaving. Yet here they are stuck with him again.

[Sea Ray]

Originally Posted by Highlifeman21

Giving Weathers almost $4 Mil is ridiculous, when we could easily have one of our young pups take his place.

Are you projecting Weathers to take a big dive from last year? I don't think his money was wasted last year...do you? And he's pretty much making the same money he has in recent years and IMO he's been somewhat of a bargain. I agree there is a risk that age will catch up to this veteran at some point and turn him into a RH version of Stanton or Frenchy. I think Walt is gambling that he can squeeze another year's worth of pitches out of Weathers' arm.

As of right now we don't have a young pup that can take his place. Perhaps Roenicke or Fisher but we don't have a major league track record to base that on.

[Big Klu]

The vast majority of RedsZone was calling for the Reds to offer Weathers arbitration, so that he could refuse it, and earn for the club a precious compensatory "draft pick". When he actually accepted their offer, the vast majority of RedsZone then howled its displeasure at ever offering arbitration. You can't have it both ways.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by Sea Ray

Are you projecting Weathers to take a big dive from last year? I don't think his money was wasted last year...do you? And he's pretty much making the same money he has in recent years and IMO he's been somewhat of a bargain. I agree there is a risk that age will catch up to this veteran at some point and turn him into a RH version of Stanton or Frenchy. I think Walt is gambling that he can squeeze another year's worth of pitches out of Weathers' arm.

As of right now we don't have a young pup that can take his place. Perhaps Roenicke or Fisher but we don't have a major league track record to base that on.

I don't care what we paid Weathers last year, ya know? Weathers was probably worth his money in 2008, but that's not my point.

I care about what he's paid in 2009, and what he's likely to do. That's my contention. I'd rather us save money and bring up a Roenicke or a Fisher or any of the other guys that we need to see what they can do at the MLB level, than to burn $4 Mil on David Weathers in 2009. Will Weathers really outpitch any of them when you factor in money?

[redsmetz]

Originally Posted by Big Klu

The vast majority of RedsZone was calling for the Reds to offer Weathers arbitration, so that he could refuse it, and earn for the club a precious compensatory "draft pick". When he actually accepted their offer, the vast majority of RedsZone then howled its displeasure at ever offering arbitration. You can't have it both ways.

I, for one, saw offering Weathers arbitration as a No Lose situation. You have to know there's a chance the player will accept. As Sea Ray noted, this contract is essentially little different than last year's and gives the club the ability to part ways at season's end if things don't work out.

All this hand wringing over the Weathers contract gets old. Folks have been predicting that he was set to blow up any day now hasn't occurred. Yes, I fully understand that age ultimately catches up with players, but others have shown they could continue to be effective into their 40's (he'll turn 40 late in the season). Some of his appearances were dicey last season, but he was effective nonetheless.

[membengal]

I don't care what age he is. That kind of jack spent on a set-up guy, in light of this team's needs, thereby making it so they couldn't meet those needs, is frustrating. The Reds, as they are quick to tell us, are NOT the Yankees. And yet the Reds have spent on their bullpen like they are. Between Cordero/Weathers/Rhodes/Lincoln they are approaching $20 million. That's insane.

I didn't mind the money on Cordero (but understand why others have), but think they should have gone with less expensive in-house options in front of Cordero. So, yeah, the Weathers money was an odd choice for this team in light of what they now maintain their budget is.

Again, as I wrote elsewhere on another thread, either:

1. Jock was NOT aware of the true budget when he spent that kind of coin, thinking he had more back to make a run at an Abreu or Burrell or whomever; or

2. Jock WAS aware of the true budget and has committed GM malpractice this off-season.

[BuckeyeRedleg]

Originally Posted by membengal

I don't care what age he is. That kind of jack spent on a set-up guy, in light of this team's needs, thereby making it so they couldn't meet those needs, is frustrating. The Reds, as they are quick to tell us, are NOT the Yankees. And yet the Reds have spent on their bullpen like they are. Between Cordero/Weathers/Rhodes/Lincoln they are approaching $20 million. That's insane.

I didn't mind the money on Cordero (but understand why others have), but think they should have gone with less expensive in-house options in front of Cordero. So, yeah, the Weathers money was an odd choice for this team in light of what they now maintain their budget is.

Again, as I wrote elsewhere on another thread, either:

1. Jock was NOT aware of the true budget when he spent that kind of coin, thinking he had more back to make a run at an Abreu or Burrell or whomever; or

2. Jock WAS aware of the true budget and has committed GM malpractice this off-season.

Yep.