WGC - Accenture MPC

[Redhook]

I prefer playing match play over stroke play myself, but watching it on tv is a whole different story. This event just has way too much down time. And we're not even to the weekend yet.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by Redhook

I prefer playing match play over stroke play myself, but watching it on tv is a whole different story. This event just has way too much down time. And we're not even to the weekend yet.

I found myself not sure who to root for between Cink and Els, 2 of my favorite guys out there right now...

I was glad to watch O'Hair battle thru food poisoning to at least not let Casey totally stomp him...

[MWM]

I'm kind of excited about the final. I'm a big fan of Ogilvy. He's got massive game and he's one of the few up and comers who you could see has the ability to assert himself as a consistent contender in majors and atop the money list. He's primed for a big break through.

And I love his swing. He does some weird things with his swing, which I like as watching all the finely manicured, picture perfect swings gets a little boring. He's got that Fred Couples thing going where he generates tons of club head speed while looking like he's barely swinging.

I like Paul Casey as well, but I'll be pulling for Ogilvy.

[Highlifeman21]

Something about Ogilvy rubs me the wrong way.

Maybe it's the fact he plays crappy equipment b/c they gave him the most money at the time, and locked him into a LTC to play that crap?

Maybe it's the fact that he doesn't spell his first name correctly?

Maybe it's the fact he's overrated IMO?

... and Paul Casey's the kinda guy I wish had US citizenship so he could play on our Match Play teams

I guess I'm rooting for Casey by default

[MWM]

Yeah, when Ogilvy won the US Open, I felt similarly. Not because of anything he did, but because he fell ass backwards into the title. He didn't have to finish knowing that he had to par or birdie to win. Monty and Phil choked it away after Geoff was done. None of that is his fault and anyway it happens, winning the US Open is huge. But that was initial reaction to him. I realized how stupid that was and i started to like the guy because he's always come across to me as an everyday Joe. The PGA Tour has so many guys out there who are silver spoon type of guys who i could never sit down and have a drink with. Ogilvy seems a little more rough around the edges.

[Red]

No fan of Cobra myself but if he can win 3 WGC events and a US Open he is obviously playing equipment that suits him just fine. I think all players go for the money. Tiger obviously did. He wasn't a Nike man until they threw cash at him. Same with Phil and Ernie with Callaway. If this is the reason he rubs you the wrong way then every golfer who wears a sponsors logo should rub you the wrong way. Those guys with the titleist hats aren't doing public service announcements.

Not sure what would make you say he is overrated. The guy flies under the radar more than any top 10 player in the world. Don't people actually have to talk about you for you to be overrated? I don't hear anyone talking about Ogilvy. If anything he is perhaps the most underrated player in the world.

Ogilvy has as good an all around game as anyone. His crappy equipment seems to get the ball into perfect position in the center of the fairway. His crappy irons seem to him pinpoint shot after pinpoint shot. When he did hit a wayward iron he would hit perfect recovery shots, even with a bag of 14 tin cans on a stick.

If you think Ogilvy is overrated that means you think he is rated ahead of guys that you think are better than him. Got any examples highlifeman?

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by Red

No fan of Cobra myself but if he can win 3 WGC events and a US Open he is obviously playing equipment that suits him just fine. I think all players go for the money. Tiger obviously did. He wasn't a Nike man until they threw cash at him. Same with Phil and Ernie with Callaway. If this is the reason he rubs you the wrong way then every golfer who wears a sponsors logo should rub you the wrong way. Those guys with the titleist hats aren't doing public service announcements.

Not sure what would make you say he is overrated. The guy flies under the radar more than any top 10 player in the world. Don't people actually have to talk about you for you to be overrated? I don't hear anyone talking about Ogilvy. If anything he is perhaps the most underrated player in the world.

Ogilvy has as good an all around game as anyone. His crappy equipment seems to get the ball into perfect position in the center of the fairway. His crappy irons seem to him pinpoint shot after pinpoint shot. When he did hit a wayward iron he would hit perfect recovery shots, even with a bag of 14 tin cans on a stick.

If you think Ogilvy is overrated that means you think he is rated ahead of guys that you think are better than him. Got any examples highlifeman?

... in reverse order...

Guys I think Are Better Than Ogilvy
Camilo Villegas
Anthony Kim
Lee Westwood
Steve Stricker
Ernie Els
Jim Furyk
Adam Scott
Mike Weir
Justin Rose
KJ Choi
Paul Casey
Stewart Cink
Luke Donald
Ian Poulter
Reteif Goosen

That's 15 guys below him in the World Golf Rankings that IMO are better than Ogilvy.

I'm sure only 8 or 9 pieces of equipment in his bag is Cobra. And Hell, his irons might actually be Titleists stamped as Cobra. He certainly wouldn't be the 1st Tour golfer to stamp their sponsors' logo on their equipment in place of the actual manufacturer's logo. Ogilvy's obviously got some talent, I just don't think he's as good as his record. I think he's just been very fortunate/lucky in his career. But, some say they'd rather be lucky than good when golfing...

Tiger choosing Nike was a GREAT move, actually. It brought Nike into ring with Titleist/Microsoft, and gave other companies like Taylor Made & Callaway hope. It's been a win/win for everyone equipment-wise. Everyone's pushing each other's R&D to the envelope. In turn, it's led for great stuff for the consumer, and even better stuff for Tour players.

Philly Mick's decision, however, was the worst EVER. Changed equipment what, 1 week before the Ryder Cup? I guess 10 figures helps make decisions, ya know?

With Ernie, I think he actually believed in Callaway's product and made money in the process. At least that's what I want to believe.

I'm guilty of Phil's decision, too. I have a closet full of Callaway & Ashworth apparel. I have 3 pairs of Callaway golf shoes. I have probably a dozen Callaway fitted hats. I have a staff bag and a carry bag full of Callaway drivers, fairway metal, irons, wedges and putters. I probably have 24 Dozen various HX Tour and HXi balls around the house. I'm a Golf Pro sponsorship *****, what can I say? For 2 years, Callaway paid my section tourney event entry fees and gave me a crap load of free schwag. Was I crazy about their equipment? Absolutely not. But I was crazy about their offer.

--- >although I currently play:

Driver - Callaway FT5 8 Deg Neutral w/ some Aldila Prototype 80 weight shaft S flex tipped
3 wood - Callaway Fusion 13 Deg. w/ V2 shaft R flex 2.5 inch tipped
1 Hybrid - Callaway Fusion 14 (bent to 15) Deg. w/ Aldila VS shaft S Flex
3 Hybird - Callaway Fusion 19 Deg. w/ Aldila VS shaft S Flex
4 - 9 - Titleist 962B w/ Project X 6.5 shafts
PW - Titleist Spin Milled 49 w/ Project X Spinner Shaft
GW - Callaway X Tour 53 Ded MD w/ Tour Grind w/ Project X Spinner Shaft
SW/LW - Callaway X Tour 58 Deg MD w/ Project X Spinner Shaft
Putter - Callaway Tour Blue TT1 35.5 inch

...

[Razor Shines]

Originally Posted by Red

No fan of Cobra myself but if he can win 3 WGC events and a US Open he is obviously playing equipment that suits him just fine. I think all players go for the money. Tiger obviously did. He wasn't a Nike man until they threw cash at him. Same with Phil and Ernie with Callaway. If this is the reason he rubs you the wrong way then every golfer who wears a sponsors logo should rub you the wrong way. Those guys with the titleist hats aren't doing public service announcements.

Not sure what would make you say he is overrated. The guy flies under the radar more than any top 10 player in the world. Don't people actually have to talk about you for you to be overrated? I don't hear anyone talking about Ogilvy. If anything he is perhaps the most underrated player in the world.

Ogilvy has as good an all around game as anyone. His crappy equipment seems to get the ball into perfect position in the center of the fairway. His crappy irons seem to him pinpoint shot after pinpoint shot. When he did hit a wayward iron he would hit perfect recovery shots, even with a bag of 14 tin cans on a stick.

If you think Ogilvy is overrated that means you think he is rated ahead of guys that you think are better than him. Got any examples highlifeman?

Nike didn't make clubs before Tiger. And as I understand it he doesn't have to play with them if he doesn't think they are the best clubs, he still uses a Scotty Cameron putter. But you can bet your butt that Nike made for darn sure that the clubs Tiger uses will always have a swoosh on them, whether they are actual Nike clubs or not. Isn't there still a rumor that Tiger has his Irons forged by Miura, or was that finally killed? I used to pay close attention to that kind of stuff.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by Razor Shines

Nike didn't make clubs before Tiger. And as I understand it he doesn't have to play with them if he doesn't think they are the best clubs, he still uses a Scotty Cameron putter. But you can bet your butt that Nike made for darn sure that the clubs Tiger uses will always have a swoosh on them, whether they are actual Nike clubs or not. Isn't there still a rumor that Tiger has his Irons forged by Miura, or was that finally killed? I used to pay close attention to that kind of stuff.

Last I checked, Nike stamps a swoosh on Mizuno irons for Mr. Woods.

He does, however, play their driver, which is uniquely theirs.

[Red]

That list is an utter joke highlifeman.

Poulter has never won a thing. He even has a tendency to shank shots when under pressure. I like Poulter but he is a definite level below GO.

Stricker is a good player but nowhere near capable of doing what Ogilvy did this week. So how can he be considered as good?

Luke Donald, same thing. Fine player but he couldn't shoot -12 over 33 holes of mini golf, let alone a pressure packed final like yesterday.

Justin Rose doesn't have the game of Ogilvy either. He has all the talent but something is missing upstairs with Justin. Again, it is the reason he has never done anything like this.

I like Westwood as much as the next guy but he has no WGC wins and no majors. Geoff has 4 total. If you want to call Ogilvy lucky, so be it, but he has gotten the job done and put himself into position to be lucky, Westwood never does.

Disagree with Cink as well. The guy has world class talent and is one of the top 25 players in the world. But he doesn't belong in any discussion of the worlds top five. Ogilvy does.

Choi, Goosen, Furyk and Adam Scott don't belong in this discussion either. Adam Scott will shoot 61 to win Houston but he couldn't make 1/4 of the putts Ogilvy made over the last 5 days. Goosen and Furyk had their runs. Both can still win but neither will ever be a top 5 player again, IMO. Choi is a solid pro but doesn't have the all around game that Ogilvy does.

I won't argue with Villegas and Kim as they have serious game. The other guys however have had plenty of time to boost their resumes and they haven't done it.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Razor Shines

Nike didn't make clubs before Tiger. And as I understand it he doesn't have to play with them if he doesn't think they are the best clubs, he still uses a Scotty Cameron putter. But you can bet your butt that Nike made for darn sure that the clubs Tiger uses will always have a swoosh on them, whether they are actual Nike clubs or not. Isn't there still a rumor that Tiger has his Irons forged by Miura, or was that finally killed? I used to pay close attention to that kind of stuff.

I didn't say they did make clubs before Tiger. All I said was that the only reason Tiger plays Nike is because of the checks they send him.

I can't find anything that says he plays mizuno with Nike stamps. Would be curious to see that point validated somewhere. If it is true it is just stupid. Playing mizuno while claiming you are playing Nike should be illegal and probably is.

[MWM]

Golf discussions on this site are supposed to be fun. Why don't we leave the other stuff on the baseball side where it belongs.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by Red

I didn't say they did make clubs before Tiger. All I said was that the only reason Tiger plays Nike is because of the checks they send him.

I can't find anything that says he plays mizuno with Nike stamps. Would be curious to see that point validated somewhere. If it is true it is just stupid. Playing mizuno while claiming you are playing Nike should be illegal and probably is.

I know for a fact when Nike first started making Tiger's irons they bought the press mold for his MP 14s that he played as an amateur, b/c the copyright/patent window had expired and Nike compensated Mizuno very well for the technology. They did not, however, buy the press mold for the MP 29s, b/c their copyright/patent window had not expired.

Even when Tiger played for Titleist, Miura forged Tiger's Titleists. It may be the case that now Nike's finally gotten a good handle on their bought technology, and that their forging happens in Japan or Thailand, but the actual grinding happens down in Fort Worth, TX. So, take that as you will. The forging happens overseas, and definitely not buy a sole Nike facility. Plenty of clubmakers forge their clubs at either Endo Japan or Endo Thailand, so to say that what Tiger plays is 100% Nike is kinda laughable, IMO. But, Tiger's credited Mike Taylor with Nike down in Fort Worth with doing some custom grinds, so who knows at this point? All I do know is that when Nike got into the club game, it was by making equipment that was no longer protected by copyright/patent.

On a similar note, have you noticed exactly how much Scotty Cameron putters look like various ping models? Same thing. Copyright/patent window expires, Scotty Cameron "revolutionizes" the putting market with something Ping put out probably 20 years ago.

... and plenty of Tour Pros play equipment that's made by another manufacturer with the stamp of their sponsor. That's been going on for yeaaaaaaaaaars. MacGregor used to be the big player in forged irons, and they allowed players to stamp other brands on their irons, since MacGregor was getting money for it anyway. Mizuno's done the same, and for awhile, as I said, some of Titleist's stuff was actually Miura. Nothing illegal about it at all.

[Razor Shines]

Originally Posted by Red

I didn't say they did make clubs before Tiger. All I said was that the only reason Tiger plays Nike is because of the checks they send him.

I can't find anything that says he plays mizuno with Nike stamps. Would be curious to see that point validated somewhere. If it is true it is just stupid. Playing mizuno while claiming you are playing Nike should be illegal and probably is.

Well I know that he played Mizzys as an amateur, I thought that he was using Titleist, but Highlifeman would know better than me. The point is who ever makes it, Tiger uses the best equipment, and it's stuff we probably can't buy. And Nike makes putters, why does he use a Scotty Cameron? Because it's the best.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Highlifeman21

... and plenty of Tour Pros play equipment that's made by another manufacturer with the stamp of their sponsor. That's been going on for yeaaaaaaaaaars.

How do you know Ogilvy isn't doing the same thing? Maybe the cobra logos you see are just that, logos.

I was just kidding when I said it was illegal.