Fan Graph's baseball has Reds as 24th best organization

[jojo]

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[lollipopcurve]

If the Reds do well they will win 81 games -if they do poorly they'll win 70...and almost all the difference is related to no real change -just a blip on the pythag. scale (over or under performing it), but no real difference.

I think it's easy to get swallowed up in this kind of statistical breakdown of a team. I think it's also sad to see it happen to fans. The team's been in a trough, no doubt, and that wearies the faint of heart, too.

We're finding out who the diehards are. Punch-drunk, maybe, but still here.

[lollipopcurve]

What you seem to be missing is quite a few people who have fit into that category for decades no longer do. I'm out after 37 years.

You've been saying you're out for awhile now. But you're still here. And I like that about you.

What's surprised me about this offseason is the number of dedicated Reds fans who've taken that same attitude. Anecdotally speaking, just from what I read (or don't read) on this board, there's a completely unorganized movement afoot.

Be happy.

[M2]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

I think it's easy to get swallowed up in this kind of statistical breakdown of a team. I think it's also sad to see it happen to fans. The team's been in a trough, no doubt, and that wearies the faint of heart, too.

We're finding out who the diehards are. Punch-drunk, maybe, but still here.

Or maybe we're finding out who the masochists are. Faint of heart? I've got plenty of heart, thank you very much ... and so do plenty of the people who've posted during this winter about their ambivalence toward the team.

Don't see where it's got anything to do with statistical breakdowns unless you're arguing the only way to remain a Reds fans is to avoid putting thought into whether the club actually is any good. You don't need to understand much of anything about stats to recognize the Reds weren't very good last year and haven't added anything likely to have a lot of positive impact during the offseason.

[M2]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

You've been saying you're out for awhile now. But you're still here. And I like that about you.

I'm here because I like talking baseball with the people on this board, not because of the Reds. It is so not about the team for me.

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

Be happy.

I am. Plenty in fact. Great family. Good job. Love where I live. Get to pursue a wide variety of interests.

[lollipopcurve]

Or maybe we're finding out who the masochists are. Faint of heart? I've got plenty of heart, thank you very much ... and so do plenty of the people who've posted during this winter about their ambivalence toward the team.

I didn't think there was much ambivalence at all. So there's still hope?

Don't see where it's got anything to do with statistical breakdowns unless you're arguing the only way to remain a Reds fans is to avoid putting thought into whether the club actually is any good. You don't need to understand much of anything about stats to recognize the Reds weren't very good last year and haven't added anything likely to have a lot of positive impact during the offseason.

I haven't made any claims about what is required to be a fan. People are making their own declarations about whether they're still a fan or not. All I'm remarking is the passing of those who say they've lost interest, and the fact that I have not lost interest. There have been times in my life when I have not followed the team closely -- out of the country, raising young kids -- and I certainly understand that there are many more important things in life than following a pro sports team. And there are times when people need change. Life is governed by change, after all. Yet, for some of us, baseball, and Reds baseball, is one of the very few constants.

What annoys me is prolonged negativity in this message board arena. So I push back against it. I think that's what we're about here, at least I hope so, in the larger sense. I hope that if there's one thing folks can unite about here, it's about pulling for the Reds, even through all the debate -- and all the losing.

[lollipopcurve]

I'm here because I like talking baseball with the people on this board, not because of the Reds. It is so not about the team for me.

That's cool.

I am. Plenty in fact. Great family. Good job. Love where I live. Get to pursue a wide variety of interests.

Ditto, for the most part. Ever been out here to western Mass? We should meet sometime, really.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

What annoys me is prolonged negativity in this message board arena. So I push back against it. I think that's what we're about here, at least I hope so, in the larger sense. I hope that if there's one thing folks can unite about here, it's about pulling for the Reds, even through all the debate -- and all the losing.

Thats the feeling I get around here. It kind of sucks the life about talking about Reds baseball. To me it seems that all the epic fail and T-virus talk leads me to believe people would rather see the Reds lose just to say "I told you so".

[BRM]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

To me it seems that all the epic fail and T-virus talk leads me to believe people would rather see the Reds lose just to say "I told you so".

I honestly don't think there is a single poster/fan on this board who truly feels that way. Just my opinion, of course.

[M2]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

What annoys me is prolonged negativity in this message board arena.

I'm not sure you can it negativity when the club's been a consistent loser for eight seasons. That's just the reality of it.

Calling shenanigans on shenanigans isn't negativity. It's wearisome to do. I mean, the Reds could cut the shenanigans, but it's not indicative of a predisposition toward anything other than a distaste for nonsense.

If you asked fans to draw up a list of what the Reds really needed this offseason in order to field a contender I doubt what the team actually did measures up. In fact, I'm reasonably sure that if you could go back in time to Nov. 1 and suggest the Reds do what they actually did this winter, the almost uniform response would be, "No thanks, that's an awful idea."

I get the whole lemons and lemonade part of it, but some people don't want lemonade.

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

Ever been out here to western Mass? We should meet sometime, really.

My in-laws are out there (my wife hails from South Hadley). We don't tend to have a lot of free time when we're out there, but if I'll let you know if I'm out heading out there with some time to spare.

[osuceltic]

Originally Posted by jojo

Couldn't the gnashing of teeth about the way the Reds build a team be the result of having a burning desire to see the Reds win? That's kind of the point of caring about the process isn't it?

Think about it. If seeing the team win is secondary to the process, wouldn't it be more likely that a person would gravitate to whatever team best fit their "model" rather than adopting a team that isn't doing things "their" way and gnashing teeth over it?

If a person doesn't really care about a team, why would they gnash teeth over them?

I think a lot of fans here do gravitate toward teams that fit their model. There are plenty of folks who seem to spend a lot of time following the A's, which is fine.

[M2]

Originally Posted by osuceltic

I think a lot of fans here do gravitate toward teams that fit their model. There are plenty of folks who seem to spend a lot of time following the A's, which is fine.

Just a guess, but I bet if you actually asked (or paid attention to) what these supposed A's fan see as "their model," you'd find it looks a lot like the BRM or the 1985-1995 Reds.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Thats the feeling I get around here. It kind of sucks the life about talking about Reds baseball. To me it seems that all the epic fail and T-virus talk leads me to believe people would rather see the Reds lose just to say "I told you so".

That's never been true.

[MWM]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

That's never been true.

It's ridiculous. Yet we hear it all the time arond here. I don't see how anyone could believe such rubbish.

[BRM]

Originally Posted by MWM

It's ridiculous. Yet we hear it all the time arond here. I don't see how anyone could believe such rubbish.

I've never understood it either. If you criticize the FO's moves or any of the players you obviously are rooting for the team to fail...I don't get it.