Angels interested in Reds pitching?

[remdog]

Originally Posted by Strikes Out Looking

I see Nick Masset going to California to take a shot as a starter there with the Reds getting a A/AA prospect.

As long as that prospect is a solid bet, I can see that as a possibility.

Rem

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

The Angels are going to feel out the Reds' motivations, if the Reds appear willing to deal Arroyo. You say the Reds don't have to deal Arroyo -- are you sure? Maybe the Reds, in this economy, fear they're going to have to shed payroll, and want to do so before that becomes glaringly obvious in June, when teams will offer them nothing. Baseball is a business, above all. As much as teams analyze each other's roster surplusses and deficits, they will tease out each other's financial positions, too. The Angels GM is going to open his negotiation as if the Reds are dumping salary, while the Reds are going to say it isn't. The Angels guy will say, "OK, if you're not interested in dumping dollars, let's swap contracts (Arroyo for Matthews), and I'll throw in some nice talent." If the Reds balk, the Angels guy comes back and says, "So, you are interested in cutting dollars, then, it seems." And the negotiation goes on from there.

I haven't read anywhere that the Reds need to dump salary. The only report I heard was Peter Gammons about Harang and that was quickly discarded.

Its pretty simple why Arroyo would be on the block. The Reds like Harang better and Volquez, Cueto, Owings, and Bailey all are, or have the potential to be, better than Arroyo. The Angles can and probably will act as if the Reds need to dump salary. If that is refuted early then the price tag for Arroyo will go up.

I don't see Matthews being moved. He is a toxic asset for every team. They don't want a CF who is being paid that much to not produce. The Reds don't need a CF now with Taveras there now and Stubbs waiting in the fold. Why would the Reds want to swap contracts Arroyo for Matthews? Arroyo is a performing starting pitcher while Matthews is an under performing 5th outfielder being paid like a top tier CF.

[Scrap Irony]

If I'm Cincinnati, I want Wood rather than Aybar. Wood has a chance to be special. Aybar, merely decent. Of course, Wood's washout rate is higher, though he'd also fit as the #7 or 8 hitter in the Red lineup, especially at the GABP.

Too, if Matthews is going to Cincinnati, the Reds should rightfully expect Adenhardt as well. Matthews contract is horrid. Perhaps the worst in baseball. To take that on, Cincinnati would have to receive some serious prospect payback.

If the Angels merely want Arroyo and no big contract goes the other way, I still ask for another prospect, as Bronson's value is very solid.

[lollipopcurve]

I haven't read anywhere that the Reds need to dump salary. The only report I heard was Peter Gammons about Harang and that was quickly discarded.

You won't read it. Teams don't publicize that stuff.

Its pretty simple why Arroyo would be on the block. The Reds like Harang better and Volquez, Cueto, Owings, and Bailey all are, or have the potential to be, better than Arroyo.

I'm sure there would be some truth in that, if it's the case. But to dismiss that $$$ could be part of the decision -- perhaps even a large part -- is naive. Baseball is a business.

Why would the Reds want to swap contracts Arroyo for Matthews? Arroyo is a performing starting pitcher while Matthews is an under performing 5th outfielder being paid like a top tier CF.

The only way the Reds would want to swap the contracts is if a) they are truly uninterested in shedding payroll and b) the Angels are willing to pay a nice premium in talent in exchange for the Reds taking on their toxic asset. That's what I've been saying since my first post in this thread.

[Mario-Rijo]

I say forget dumping salary, send them Masset and Kepp (and more if need be) for Izturis (plus maybe a low level prospect). Then we have a SS we don't have to wait on to get better, he's solid enough all the way around to start and be an upgrade or he can sit the bench until Gonzo gets hurt again. Once he plays awhile and hits #2 (a SS who can actually be a fair #2 hitter), Dusty will appreciate what he brings to the table and then the job becomes his effectively Wally Pipping Gonzo. Plus we re-sign him for the next few years until we get a legit SS prospect.

I know everyone wants a SS for the future but I guess I am willing to settle for a SS for the present, which comes much cheaper and helps us right away.

[remdog]

Originally Posted by Mario-Rijo

I know everyone wants a SS for the future but I guess I am willing to settle for a SS for the present, which comes much cheaper and helps us right away.

I like that perspective.

Rem

[lollipopcurve]

I say forget dumping salary, send them Masset and Kepp (and more if need be) for Izturis (plus maybe a low level prospect). Then we have a SS we don't have to wait on to get better, he's solid enough all the way around to start and be an upgrade or he can sit the bench until Gonzo gets hurt again. Once he plays awhile and hits #2 (a SS who can actually be a fair #2 hitter), Dusty will appreciate what he brings to the table and then the job becomes his effectively Wally Pipping Gonzo. Plus we re-sign him for the next few years until we get a legit SS prospect.

I know everyone wants a SS for the future but I guess I am willing to settle for a SS for the present, which comes much cheaper and helps us right away.

Nice idea. I like Izturis. Nice LH bat and good INF versatility. I think I'd rather see them give Janish a shot at SS if Gonzo is out, and let Izturis back up 2B-SS-3B.

[reds44]

Janish is never going to hit enough to be an everyday SS.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

You won't read it. Teams don't publicize that stuff.

Teams don't publicize it but it I really haven't heard any speculation about the Reds and financial woes this off season. I don't foresee any financial woes out of the Reds this year because IMO they pulled in the reigns at the right time. Cincinnati, while hurting in this economy, isn't hurting as bad as some other teams/cities.

I'm sure there would be some truth in that, if it's the case. But to dismiss that $$$ could be part of the decision -- perhaps even a large part -- is naive. Baseball is a business.

Absolutely. Baseball is a business and will always be a business. But if a certain asset is performing to its value then there is no reason to get rid of that asset. Arroyo is living up to his end of the contract. They could trade him and go young, but again I feel that they have no pressing need to get rid of Arroyo. Heck the Reds could trade Harang and Arroyo and go with a very cheap rotation of Volquez, Cueto, Owings, Bailey, and Ramirez/Thompson/etc. They aren't doing so because they don't need to.

The only way the Reds would want to swap the contracts is if a) they are truly uninterested in shedding payroll and b) the Angels are willing to pay a nice premium in talent in exchange for the Reds taking on their toxic asset. That's what I've been saying since my first post in this thread.

Agreed. I would venture to guess that there are 29 other teams who want nothing to do with Matthews contract. Matthews may have been the key this off season to trade for one of the Angles young players. However since they are having pitching problems the Angles may need to pay the piper to get another starter.

[Scrap Irony]

Spring Training so far:


1. B Wood .333/.382/.706/ 1.098 OPS 5HR 14 RBI 2 SB (51 AB)
2. E Aybar .463/.521/.829 1.352 OPS 2 HR 10 RBI 4 SB (41 AB)

[Mario-Rijo]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

Nice idea. I like Izturis. Nice LH bat and good INF versatility. I think I'd rather see them give Janish a shot at SS if Gonzo is out, and let Izturis back up 2B-SS-3B.

I really want to win now and although I am one of the few who have always thought Janish can hit just enough to be a starter (as long as his defense remains above avg.) he certainly wouldn't give us what Izturis could right now. Izturis would be as good defensively as anyone we have and would give us a legitimate top of the lineup guy. He isn't by any means a great offensive player but relative to his position avg. to above. What I like is that he has plate discipline, solid wheels and is a good solid defender, plus he's gonna be easier to deal for than Aybar or Wood because he's like 29 IIRC and a FA at years end.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

Agreed. I guess it would have to be up to the scouts. Looking at Aybar's minor league numbers, nothing really jumps out except the steals. I wonder why he stopped running once he got to the show.

You gotta be on base to try to steal bases.

Erick Aybar struggles to find 1B.

[Highlifeman21]

Originally Posted by reds44

If the Reds could flip Arroyo for a legit SS, I'd feel a lot better about our chances this season.

... and going forward

The Reds lack a legit SS for this season and future seasons.

[RedEye]

Hey! We could trade Arroyo for Howie Kendrick and move Brandon Phillips to...

Oh. Sorry.

[corkedbat]

Arroyo, Masset and Keppinger for Aybar and Figgins