Phillips a good fit at 4? - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

xavr1 · 04-20-2009, 03:22 PM

So Paul Daughtery wrote today about how bad a fit BPhil is at the clean up spot. I know this was discussed back when Dusty announced that he would be batting there, but now that we've had 11 games under our belt, what do you guys think about him there?

My initial thought is to agree with Daugherty. He doesnt instill the kind of fear in hitters you would want out of your 4 hitter. But then I wonder, who else do you put there? Votto is more of a natural 3. Bruce isnt seeing the ball and seems like a better fit at 5 or 6 anyway. Same with EE.

Whats the best option at cleanup?

will5979 · 04-20-2009, 03:40 PM

This is just me, but I have never liked Phillips batting cleanup. To me he is more of a Barry Larkin #2 hitter type than a 4. Honestly I believe the Reds made a HUGE mistake by not signing a FA bat in the offseason. Burrell, Abreu, Dunn, hell even Sheffield, OR what happened to trading Homer Boring to the Sox for Dye? This front office is/has been for about 15 years being ran by ignoramouses.

Eric_the_Red · 04-20-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will5979

This is just me, but I have never liked Phillips batting cleanup. To me he is more of a Barry Larkin #2 hitter type than a 4. Honestly I believe the Reds made a HUGE mistake by not signing a FA bat in the offseason. Burrell, Abreu, Dunn, hell even Sheffield, OR what happened to trading Homer Boring to the Sox for Dye? This front office is/has been for about 15 years being ran by ignoramouses.

Burrell = Dunn, and the Fo has decided that type of player is not a fit for this team. And Abreu is almost as bad as Dunn in the OF, which again doesntt fit the defensive mold the organization is going for.

Sheffield wasn't avilable in the off-season and he decided to go to the Mets.

xavr1 · 04-20-2009, 04:23 PM

Abreu might be a liability in the field, but last I checked he was hitting around .360 this season. He might be a better option at the 4 if we had him, but he was the 3 hitter for the Yankees (and I think the Phils as well) and doesnt really hit a ton of HRs.

Eric_the_Red · 04-20-2009, 04:35 PM

Riddle me this: when is the last time Abreu OPS'd over .850? (2006)
When is the last time Abreu hit over 20 HR? (2005)
When is the last time Abreu hit 30 HR? (2004)

How is this the "power threat" the team needs?

PhillipsHead · 04-20-2009, 04:42 PM

He is a perfect fit in the 2 slot. However, we have no other cleanup hitter.

Captain Hook · 04-20-2009, 05:00 PM

We can talk about what we should have done all day long but the reality is that we're stuck with what we have for now.Considering that I would rather EE bat 4th with Phillips moving to the 6th spot.This would probably not make a huge difference but thats just my personal preference.Either way we might be able to compete to the point where a little over .500 baseball is possible.But the 4th spot will IMO prevent this team from doing any better.I think its a real problem considering the supposed goals this year(making the playoffs).

Sometimes you need to have the right parts to fix something thats not working.I sure hope that the front office is considering the possibility that this team does just enough to stay in the playoff race up until the trade deadline and what they will do to fix this problem.My hope is that if that time comes some of the guys that are really struggling now have come around making it clear what this offense needs to get over the hump.

thorn · 04-20-2009, 05:08 PM

The original queston was who on our current roster is better suited to hit cleanup, my guess is no one.

Jerome · 04-20-2009, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorn

The original queston was who on our current roster is better suited to hit cleanup, my guess is no one.

I'll second that one. It's apparent Phillips isn't the answer--never was, never will be. I can't believe how often he check swings. It's very unsettling to my mind and my digestive system. The least he could do is give a professional AB. He has been walking more, but not enough to warrant a star on his bedtime checklist.

will5979 · 04-20-2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thorn

The original queston was who on our current roster is better suited to hit cleanup, my guess is no one.

Bingo.

BLEEDS · 04-20-2009, 08:02 PM

EE should be in the 4 hole, for sure.

It's not that he is the best for the 4 hole, it's that Phillips is also best for the 6 hole.

EE gets walked a lot - one, because he's got a good eye, and 2, because our 7 & 8 hitters are horrendous. He's no risk to get in if the bag is open or there's 2 outs, etc...

NOW, IF you had Phillips there, they are not going to want to give him a free pass. Because of his speed. There, he could steal some bags, and put himself in scoring position. Then a bloop single will get you a run. You're going to need a passed ball or a balk to get EE from 1st to 2nd.
THIS is a Huge difference later in the lineup, as opposed to the 4 hole for Phillips.

Sure, I'd bat him 4th against LHP, he murders them, but he's a liability vs RHP in general, let alone in the 4 hole. His lone 30-30 year, that he'll never repeat again, was more a product of KGJ and AD, and the luckiest rate of "just enough" HR balls - e.g. 340 to a 335 LF line, 357 to a 350 LCF gap, etc... - than any real raw power, especially against RHP. He in no way is the best option to bat 4th on an everyday basis.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

ian_madden · 04-21-2009, 12:07 PM

I feel that the clutch hitting of EE makes him the best suited for the cleanup spot. I always thought that BP would be a good 2 hole guy, then I saw his OBP. He is not fit for that spot. His speed does make him a threat, along with his quality power numbers, and his defense. I think that BP can put it all together when some of this weight is taken off his shoulders. Make the move, switch EE and BP.

bgwilly31 · 04-21-2009, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will5979

This is just me, but I have never liked Phillips batting cleanup. To me he is more of a Barry Larkin #2 hitter type than a 4. Honestly I believe the Reds made a HUGE mistake by not signing a FA bat in the offseason. Burrell, Abreu, Dunn, hell even Sheffield, OR what happened to trading Homer Boring to the Sox for Dye? This front office is/has been for about 15 years being ran by ignoramouses.

Hit the nail on the head.

Krawhitham · 04-21-2009, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillipsHead

He is a perfect fit in the 2 slot. However, we have no other cleanup hitter.

Votto says hello

Yes he is your best hitter and the best hitter normally bats 3rd, but he is also the only one that drives in runs.

Phillips is walking more this season but he is not hitting, let him walk in front of Votto so he can drive him in

PhillipsHead · 04-21-2009, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krawhitham

Votto says hello

Yes he is your best hitter and the best hitter normally bats 3rd, but he is also the only one that drives in runs.

Phillips is walking more this season but he is not hitting, let him walk in front of Votto so he can drive him in

I agree that eventually Votto should be hitting cleanup, but if and until Phillips prove he can hit .280+, then he should've be our 3 hitter. While a Lineup of:

Taveras
Dickerson
Phillips
Votto
EE
Bruce
Ramon

works perfect as far as the right/left/right/left notion, Phillips has to pick it up a lot, because at this point, it's about getting your best hitter more at-bats....and that's why Votto's hitting 3.

04-20-2009, 03:22 PM	#1
xavr1 Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Columbus Posts: 336	Phillips a good fit at 4? So Paul Daughtery wrote today about how bad a fit BPhil is at the clean up spot. I know this was discussed back when Dusty announced that he would be batting there, but now that we've had 11 games under our belt, what do you guys think about him there? My initial thought is to agree with Daugherty. He doesnt instill the kind of fear in hitters you would want out of your 4 hitter. But then I wonder, who else do you put there? Votto is more of a natural 3. Bruce isnt seeing the ball and seems like a better fit at 5 or 6 anyway. Same with EE. Whats the best option at cleanup?

04-20-2009, 04:23 PM	#4
xavr1 Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Columbus Posts: 336	Re: Phillips a good fit at 4? Abreu might be a liability in the field, but last I checked he was hitting around .360 this season. He might be a better option at the 4 if we had him, but he was the 3 hitter for the Yankees (and I think the Phils as well) and doesnt really hit a ton of HRs.

04-20-2009, 04:35 PM	#5
Eric_the_Red Mr.Redlegs is my homeboy Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Cincinnati Posts: 2,171	Re: Phillips a good fit at 4? Riddle me this: when is the last time Abreu OPS'd over .850? (2006) When is the last time Abreu hit over 20 HR? (2005) When is the last time Abreu hit 30 HR? (2004) How is this the "power threat" the team needs?

04-20-2009, 04:42 PM	#6
PhillipsHead Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: San Diego Posts: 245	Re: Phillips a good fit at 4? He is a perfect fit in the 2 slot. However, we have no other cleanup hitter.

04-20-2009, 05:00 PM	#7
Captain Hook Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: columbus,ohio Posts: 2,025	Re: Phillips a good fit at 4? We can talk about what we should have done all day long but the reality is that we're stuck with what we have for now.Considering that I would rather EE bat 4th with Phillips moving to the 6th spot.This would probably not make a huge difference but thats just my personal preference.Either way we might be able to compete to the point where a little over .500 baseball is possible.But the 4th spot will IMO prevent this team from doing any better.I think its a real problem considering the supposed goals this year(making the playoffs). Sometimes you need to have the right parts to fix something thats not working.I sure hope that the front office is considering the possibility that this team does just enough to stay in the playoff race up until the trade deadline and what they will do to fix this problem.My hope is that if that time comes some of the guys that are really struggling now have come around making it clear what this offense needs to get over the hump. __________________

04-20-2009, 03:40 PM	#2
will5979 Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: West bye Gawd Virginia Posts: 1,184	Re: Phillips a good fit at 4? This is just me, but I have never liked Phillips batting cleanup. To me he is more of a Barry Larkin #2 hitter type than a 4. Honestly I believe the Reds made a HUGE mistake by not signing a FA bat in the offseason. Burrell, Abreu, Dunn, hell even Sheffield, OR what happened to trading Homer Boring to the Sox for Dye? This front office is/has been for about 15 years being ran by ignoramouses.

04-20-2009, 05:08 PM	#8
thorn Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: California Posts: 374	Re: Phillips a good fit at 4? The original queston was who on our current roster is better suited to hit cleanup, my guess is no one.

04-20-2009, 08:02 PM	#11
BLEEDS Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 2,128	Re: Phillips a good fit at 4? EE should be in the 4 hole, for sure. It's not that he is the best for the 4 hole, it's that Phillips is also best for the 6 hole. EE gets walked a lot - one, because he's got a good eye, and 2, because our 7 & 8 hitters are horrendous. He's no risk to get in if the bag is open or there's 2 outs, etc... NOW, IF you had Phillips there, they are not going to want to give him a free pass. Because of his speed. There, he could steal some bags, and put himself in scoring position. Then a bloop single will get you a run. You're going to need a passed ball or a balk to get EE from 1st to 2nd. THIS is a Huge difference later in the lineup, as opposed to the 4 hole for Phillips. Sure, I'd bat him 4th against LHP, he murders them, but he's a liability vs RHP in general, let alone in the 4 hole. His lone 30-30 year, that he'll never repeat again, was more a product of KGJ and AD, and the luckiest rate of "just enough" HR balls - e.g. 340 to a 335 LF line, 357 to a 350 LCF gap, etc... - than any real raw power, especially against RHP. He in no way is the best option to bat 4th on an everyday basis. PEACE -BLEEDS __________________ I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008 Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009

04-21-2009, 12:07 PM	#12
ian_madden Reds Fan 4 life!!!!! Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Covington, Ky Posts: 337	Re: Phillips a good fit at 4? I feel that the clutch hitting of EE makes him the best suited for the cleanup spot. I always thought that BP would be a good 2 hole guy, then I saw his OBP. He is not fit for that spot. His speed does make him a threat, along with his quality power numbers, and his defense. I think that BP can put it all together when some of this weight is taken off his shoulders. Make the move, switch EE and BP.

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