Philip Hughes or Homer Bailey?

[TRF]

Originally Posted by Lockdwn11

Doug and I had a talk about this very thing sometime ago in one of these threads I disagreed then as I do now but you have to give it to him for sticking to his guns.

I have trouble believing doug still believes this. Cueto is obviously the superior talent. And I firmly believe understanding HOW to pitch is a talent.

[GIDP]

Can I take Baileys stuff with Cuetos control please?

[Sea Ray]

I have never seen Homer Bailey look impressive in a game. I still don't see what the hype is about and I see opposing teams eager to hit against him. Major league hitters love a guy who throws 93-95 that can't control anything else. They just sit back and wait for that very straight heater to come down Broadway. They'd rather face that than say a Matt Maloney

[Lockdwn11]

I was very eager to see Bailey's first MLB start after hearing so much about him on this board but after I saw it I was left wanting. What I saw was a very straight Fastball that had no movement and off-speed stuff that didn't have that nice bite that good breaking balls have. In other words I'm not a big fan of Bailey's stuff so I kind of stay away from all the Homer Bailey threads but I just thought I would share my opinion this one time.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by TRF

I have trouble believing doug still believes this. Cueto is obviously the superior talent. And I firmly believe understanding HOW to pitch is a talent.

Cueto is the better pitcher now. No question about it. Bailey has a better arm and a better body. If someone had a gun to my head and made me choose who has the best career, I would still take Bailey. I am sure about 99% will disagree with me. I am fine with that. Its an opinion.

[blumj]

It isn't the same question, though. You don't get a player's whole career, you get 6 years and 3 options and limited roster spots. Maybe with Cueto, you don't necessarily want to bet on getting value for any more than those first 6 years, but, maybe with Bailey, that won't be enough time to get value at all.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by blumj

It isn't the same question, though. You don't get a player's whole career, you get 6 years and 3 options and limited roster spots. Maybe with Cueto, you don't necessarily want to bet on getting value for any more than those first 6 years, but, maybe with Bailey, that won't be enough time to get value at all.

The question I was answering was about the career of the two players. I don't care much about the first 6 years because if a player is good enough, teams keep those guys around for the most part.

[NJReds]

I have to admit. I've been on the side of being patient with Bailey, but he's going to have to show something eventually.

Hughes has been inconsistent, but he's at least shown flashes of dominance on the major league level.

[M2]

Originally Posted by blumj

It isn't the same question, though. You don't get a player's whole career, you get 6 years and 3 options and limited roster spots. Maybe with Cueto, you don't necessarily want to bet on getting value for any more than those first 6 years, but, maybe with Bailey, that won't be enough time to get value at all.

Bingo. Aside from that, Cueto's got better stuff, superior control and he's a smarter pitcher.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by M2

Bingo. Aside from that, Cueto's got better stuff, superior control and he's a smarter pitcher.

Except its not bingo because that wasn't the question I was answering. Smart pitcher, yes. Better control, yes. Better stuff, on a consistent basis, yes. Better stuff when both are throwing their best? I am not so sure about that one.

[GIDP]

Yea im gonna go with Doug also on that one about the stuff. Its just a shame not many people have seen Bailey when hes throwing his best. The potential is there but he doesnt put it together for a full game ever.

[Superdude]

Bailey has a better arm and a better body.

Better body obviously, but arm? Just based on what I've seen from Bailey at the major league level, Cueto seems to consistently throw harder and with more movement.

[TRF]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Except its not bingo because that wasn't the question I was answering. Smart pitcher, yes. Better control, yes. Better stuff, on a consistent basis, yes. Better stuff when both are throwing their best? I am not so sure about that one.

Even if it were just three out of four, it makes Cueto the better pitcher now and in the future assuming health for both players.

But really it's four out of four as Bailey has never pitched a single game in his professional career as good as Cueto's MLB debut.

[GIDP]

Not many pitchers in the history of baseball have thrown games as good as Cuetos MLB debut

[TRF]

Originally Posted by GIDP

Not many pitchers in the history of baseball have thrown games as good as Cuetos MLB debut

kind of my point. if "throwing at your best" is the criteria, Bailey is screwed in that competition.