Willy Taveras - 2009 to date

[westofyou]

Brian Giles is just as bad, makes more jack and refused a trade out of town last year... if he was Red he'd have his own thread.

Orlando Cabrera is just as bad, makes more jack and was coveted by many zoners in the off season, if he was Red he'd have his own thread.

That's shooting fish in a barrel analysis right there.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by nate

I think if one is displeased with the topics being discussed, they should start a new topic.

Complaining about complaining is worse than the complaining.

And complaining about complaining about complaining is worse yet. I think some board frequenters are wondering when Rule 5 for "excessive player criticism" is going to be enforced.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by nate

Complaining about complaining is worse than the complaining.

And has nothing to with talking baseball, it's just noise.

[Hoosier Red]

Originally Posted by traderumor

And complaining about complaining about complaining is worse yet. I think some board frequenters are wondering when Rule 5 for "excessive player criticism" is going to be enforced.

But what about complaining about complaining about complaining about complaining?

Or worse yet, complaining about complaining about complaining about complaining about complaining about complaining?

[osuceltic]

Willy would have been better off taking June off for stress-related issues.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by princeton

so far, Jocketty's the villain. Walt's slump is longer than Taveras's.

he's been given a lot to work with, but sometime within the next six weeks would be a good time to move some furniture to make it go together.

Yesterday's lineup had 4 bats currently below replacement level (Taveras, Gonzo, Rosales and whoever pitched). It also had Hairston who was both projected to be a below average major league bat and has performed to his projection.

So 5 out of 9 bats were turds. Then on the top end, there is no uber performer.

This is a roster problem that has been exacerbated by some injuries (but even without the injuries it would still be a problem).

Then consider the defense. It's improved but the replacements aren't elite defenders (Bruce and Phillips were already here).

This is a roster problem.

[ochre]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Brian Giles is just as bad, makes more jack and refused a trade out of town last year... if he was Red he'd have his own thread.

Orlando Cabrera is just as bad, makes more jack and was coveted by many zoners in the off season, if he was Red he'd have his own thread.

That's shooting fish in a barrel analysis right there.

If we could just get the GM/manager to stop stocking the barrel; There's a decent sized point right over there.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by Razor Shines

Ok, well you might have a case to forget it and move on if he'd been relegated to the 25th man and only saw the field once a week. The fact is he's starting and racking up 5 or 6 PAs a night, and usually 5 or 6 outs a night too. It's hard to forget it when you get to see a replay of suck 6 times a night.

I'm not asking you to forget it. I am as disappointed as anyone else that WT is not doing the job needed. Watching WT bat right now is brutal. I am disappointed that WT is in the lineup while Chris Dickerson is at least providing D and a single or walk every once in awhile when he plays.

But, I think it has all been said, analyzed, and criticized. Anyone hanging around here has heard the case. All of those who warned us are right. What more can be said? Why turn the board into an analogy of listening to Marty Brennamen rail on a player incessantly? That is my point.

[princeton]

yup. Walt's roster.

[Ltlabner]

Originally Posted by traderumor

But, I think it has all been said, analyzed, and criticized. Anyone hanging around here has heard the case. All of those who warned us are right. What more can be said? Why turn the board into an analogy of listening to Marty Brennamen rail on a player incessantly? That is my point.

So start some interesting new threads and we can talk about that instead.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by princeton

yup. Walt's roster.

"If you build it they will run"

[lollipopcurve]

This is a roster problem.

I don't really blame Jocketty for a lot. They're at .500 -- which many felt would constitute success -- and Votto, Encarnacion and Volquez have missed significant time.

[membengal]

Originally Posted by mth123

WV, its very simple. People grousing about Willy are mostly grousing about Walt and Dusty. Chris Dickerson is a better defender and will post an OBP about 100 points higher. He's on the roster and ready to play. There are a couple guys in the system who are highly regarded CF with more offensive potential (Stubbs and Heisey) and even Laynce Nix could move to center to get Johnny Gomes bat in there more often. The reason Willy gets the grief is because the team could instantly improve (degree of improvement may be up for debate) by making a switch.

Its not that people really disagree about Hairston, Gonzalez or Rosales. I think many think they should be on the bench or off the team as well. Its just there really aren't the readily available alternatives. I'd be ok with Paul Janish instead of Gonzo, but I wouldn't really expect any improvement with that move. I hate the idea of Hairston at 3B (but he's an OK bench guy), but until EdE returns, there really isn't anyone else at this point. Rosales on the bench is taking up space until the others come back when he'll go back down, but he's a reasonable bench player and its what his career will probably be. Drew Sutton may be an alternative that I'd try, but it isn't the obvious upgrade that is available in CF. Willy gets the grief because Willy is by far the worst player on the roster (its been so since the moment he signed) and the situation could be improved instantly.

This post gets a high-five.

[nate]

Originally Posted by traderumor

And complaining about complaining about complaining is worse yet. I think some board frequenters are wondering when Rule 5 for "excessive player criticism" is going to be enforced.

The board is an open format. One may choose to read or not to read, any thread they happen upon. However, to complain there's nothing here to read while offering no alternative seems, to me, selfish.

In other words, instead of adding to the complaining, start a post and/or stop reading the threads that bother you so. Seriously! No snark intended!

Here, I'll even help get the ball rolling.

[GAC]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

I don't really blame Jocketty for a lot. They're at .500

Could it be seen as a "deceptive" .500 that's treading water fast? Set the bilge pumps on high.

What I mean is - a lot of people, including this FO, looked at our '06 season, where we flirted with .500 till the very end of the season and felt we were on the right track.

The train then went off the tracks in the following year.

Yes, we have some good young talent on this team. But the supporting cast is crap. A group of misfits that wouldn't be starting on a lot of other teams. At least those that are competing and make serious efforts for the post-season.

I don't blame the FO for players like Votto and EE being on the DL. But even with these guys back, this team, offensively, would struggle badly IMO.

We're setting ourselves up for a fall hiding behind the reasoning that if we can just get these two back, things may be OK. That still doesn't address some of these other issues (players) whose performance is sorely lacking. And I don't think guys like a Votto and/or EE would make then play better or raise their performance.