Matt Maloney has pitched better than Homer has in Louisville this year

[M2]

Originally Posted by GOYA

IMO, that is a poor description of how Homer is pitching. Here are his last 4 starts, pitches thrown - strikes:

Apr 26 - 118-79 67%
May 2 - 106-78 74%
May 8 - 114-75 66%
May 13 - 86-58 67%

To me, Homer appears to have two problems.
1. He starts games with no idea which of his pitches are working for him and it takes a while to figure it out.
2. Lefthanded batters are killing him

This season:
LHB - .369
RHB - .167

There have been times where he dominated LHB and I don't know why. It could be that he needs a certain pitch working to get LHB out and if he doesn't have it, he gets creamed.

I don't think game-to-game strike percentages tell you much in this case. My guess is Homer's 15 K game was the result of being effectively wild, a rare night where he was able to start the ball in the zone and then have it take a late dart out of the zone.

His larger problem is that more often he's ineffectively wild, which gets him behind in the count against more experienced hitters and then they pound him when he tries to place the ball in the zone for a strike. The two don't work exclusive of each other. Rather they work hand-in-hand. What it leads to is, in AAA and the majors, is too many baserunners and too much power surrendered.

FWIW, I completely agree that he seems to walk into every game not knowing what he's going to get from himself. That even seems to be the case inning-to-inning and batter-to-batter. It also might indicate he's got to prepare better for his opponents.

IIRC, he hasn't had notable LHB problems in the past. So this might be an anomaly or it might be something new. Hard to say at this juncture.

[fearofpopvol1]

Originally Posted by M2

Maloney's doing what he needs to do to merit a shot at the next level. He's a FB pitcher, so he needs to limit the BBs in order to avoid the dread three-run HR. From what I gather, he's also mixing his pitches well.

Bailey's got the same problem he's had for years. He's hard to hit when he's wild, but he loses movement when he tries to place the ball the strikezone. He hasn't figured out how to retain movement and hit the zone. That might be lack of physical maturity or 10-cent head syndrome or both. Right now he's an unremarkable pitcher in AAA. Normally a 23-year-old kid in those circumstances wouldn't be an issue. The problem with the Reds and Bailey is the club can't give him until he's 25 to work it out in the minors (as perhaps Maloney is doing) and then promote him.

Yep...and Maloney has hardly walked any batters at all this year. He's averaging less than 1 walk per game. Not too shabby.

[Bumstead]

I would rather have Maloney in the "long relief" role than Masset. He may not be a better pitcher initially, but I think he has a chance to be a decent middle relief man for the Reds. Plus, if he pitches well, the Reds might be able to add him to a trade for a SS or LF at the deadline or for next season. We couldn't trade Masset for a can of pringles...

Obviously, I am not a believer that Maloney's numbers at AAA will translate to anything even league average in the majors. Comparing him to a 249 game winner is pretty far out there. Jamie Moyer was already established in the majors long before Maloney's age and Moyer is clearly the exception to the rule on these types of pitchers. Maloney's age and the fact that he has spent parts of the last 3 seasons at AAA would not suggest that he is anything more than a LOOGY waiting to happen IMHO.

Please bring him up and prove me wrong; or right...either way, we can quit hearing about how great he is. Who is right if he turns out to be as "good" as Danny Herrera??? Do we need a poll for that??

Bum

[M2]

Hard to complain about what Masset's done in a Reds uniform to date.

As for long relief, the job doesn't exist. I believe it's been ages since a reliever average anywhere near 2 IP an appearance. The reason why is because relievers have to pitch frequently in a world where starters don't throw complete games, meaning that being able to pitch often is more important than being able to throw multiple innings.

[Bumstead]

Well, long relief, middle relief, LOOGY...all the same...just means you come in early in the game to take one for the team or for 1-2 lefties and you go out of the game. That's what Masset does, right?

[M2]

Originally Posted by Bumstead

Well, long relief, middle relief, LOOGY...all the same...just means you come in early in the game to take one for the team or for 1-2 lefties and you go out of the game. That's what Masset does, right?

They aren't supposed to be the same, but through the filter of not-primary-setup-nor-the-closer I suppose they're all the same. Masset's a RHP who tends to throw about 1.1 IP per appearance (which I guess makes him a modern long reliever) . He's got a 1.69 ERA in 32 IP for the Reds during the past two seasons so I don't imagine he's in much danger of losing his job if he's healthy.

[Kingspoint]

Homer and Matt can keep pitching, as a pitcher that's thrown worse than either of them this year, Ramon Ramirez, gets the callup to take the place of Masset. I'm not against this move, as I'm not close enough to the situation,....heck, I'm a light-year's distance from the situation, to know what the best scenario is for making this move. Since this version of the REDS' front office makes the right move the majority of the times, I have to go with it. You're never always right, but you hope to be right often enough to make winners out of the organization, and I think that's what's been happening.

Good luck, Ramon, and keep working hard, Homer and Matt. Your time will come. Be ready for it.

[kfm]

Originally Posted by Bumstead

I would rather have Maloney in the "long relief" role than Masset. He may not be a better pitcher initially, but I think he has a chance to be a decent middle relief man for the Reds. Plus, if he pitches well, the Reds might be able to add him to a trade for a SS or LF at the deadline or for next season. We couldn't trade Masset for a can of pringles...

Obviously, I am not a believer that Maloney's numbers at AAA will translate to anything even league average in the majors. Comparing him to a 249 game winner is pretty far out there. Jamie Moyer was already established in the majors long before Maloney's age and Moyer is clearly the exception to the rule on these types of pitchers. Maloney's age and the fact that he has spent parts of the last 3 seasons at AAA would not suggest that he is anything more than a LOOGY waiting to happen IMHO.

Please bring him up and prove me wrong; or right...either way, we can quit hearing about how great he is. Who is right if he turns out to be as "good" as Danny Herrera??? Do we need a poll for that??

Bum

Interesting post. Just curious why you believe Masset has no value. With the state of relief pitching in the majors, based upon what he has done with the Reds I would think he would have some value greater than Pringles. He seems to be growing into more of a late inning guy and Dusty has used him in critical situations a few times and he has excelled.

[Bumstead]

maybe fritos? : Masset's hurt; that's why they should bring up Maloney, maybe he will pitch well and they can trade him...He's a starter which I would think would be more valuable than a middle inning relief pitcher who has had a good run so far this year.

You really think we can land something valuable with Masset?

Bum

[camisadelgolf]

Maloney, like Herrera, gets players out because of his ability to throw various types of pitches for strikes, which is the type of thing that dominates lesser hitters. At the Major League level, though, the hitters are so much better that it wouldn't take long at all for Maloney to get knocked around a bit. This is because Maloney's 'out' pitches aren't nearly as good as Herrera's. However, if Maloney is having a particularly-good day with his command, he can survive in the Major Leagues, but the same could be said for a lot of players who are toiling in AAA. I'm excited about Maloney, but I still think it's unrealistic to expect him to be more than a #4 starter.

[Kingspoint]

I've got to disagree there, camis. I think Herrera is right now and will continue to be a fine major league pitcher. Both pitchers are going to be very productive for us from the Hamilton trade.

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by Kingspoint

I've got to disagree there, camis. I think Herrera is right now and will continue to be a fine major league pitcher. Both pitchers are going to be very productive for us from the Hamilton trade.

I'm not sure where the disagreement is. I was trying to imply that Herrera will have a better career than Maloney because Herrera actually has the stuff to get hitters out, but even if Herrera were to have lesser stuff, he could still dominate hitters in the lower leagues.

[kfm]

Originally Posted by Bumstead

maybe fritos? : Masset's hurt; that's why they should bring up Maloney, maybe he will pitch well and they can trade him...He's a starter which I would think would be more valuable than a middle inning relief pitcher who has had a good run so far this year.

You really think we can land something valuable with Masset?

Bum

I think his value is growing. I am far more interested in keeping Masset than trading him away. I don't think you can get a kings ransom for him, but if he continues to pitch the way he has his value will continue to rise. Come the trade deadline, he could be a piece of a deal that another team who needs bullpen help could use.

[RED VAN HOT]

Maloney appears to be a player who figures out each new level. His excellent control bodes well for doing this at the ML level as well. IMO he will be a good ML pitcher, but he will need a season or two to adjust. I can't see the Reds allowing such a learning curve. It does seem to me that his ground ball tendencies have improved this year. If he is given a shot this year, he is not likely to get more than five starts or so to excel unless there are major injuries in the rotation.

San Diego and Oakland would be excellent places for him. They are pitcher's parks and the teams are rebuilding.

[fearofpopvol1]

Not to beat a dead horse, but this continues to be relevant IMO.

Matt had another really solid outing today.