Heads Up Leake Pitching 6/19 in CWS. Apparently healthy.

[redsof72]

A little too much is made of the tendenitis, in my opinion. Many pitchers pitch with some soreness in their arms every time they pitch. You could say that half the starting pitchers in the minor leagues are pitching with some tendenitis. Only Leake knows how much it is bothering him. If it is bothering him enough that he starts changing his delivery/arm angle, putting stress on other parts of his arm (especially the elbow), then you have a problem.

I would be more concerned with simply the number of innings he has thrown this season, and that total is quite high. College baseball is a different world. Guys throw 160 pitches in a college game, then turn pro, and see their pitch limit cut to 90. Matt Fairel told me his pitch limit at Florida State was 140. I think the Serrano kid the Reds drafted out of Oral Roberts threw 168 pitches in his last start (against Arizona State ironically).

I don't expect to see Leake sign until a few hours before the deadline. He has thrown his last inning until instructional league, and he won't throw many there either.

College coaches have different priorities. Some are more abusive than others, but they all are paid to win games. They are not in a developmental situation. They would tell you that if they thought it was hurting the kid to let him throw 140 pitches, then they wouldn't do it. They are convinced that what they are doing is ok. I do know this: The game Pat Murphy was trying to win was as important to him as it was to Charlie Manuel for the Phillies in the World Series last October.

I remember, years ago, a kid from my hometown threw 180 pitches in a game in the college world series and then made a relief appearance THE NEXT NIGHT for that team. That was total craziness. That coach is in the top 10 all-time in career victories in college baseball. Different world. Different priorities.

[Kingspoint]

Originally Posted by BLEEDS

I watched Mike Leake pitch on Friday night, in person.
He's going to be fine methinks.

I was in the stands up and past 3B, so I had a pretty good view of his pitches to the plate - although not so great East-West on the plate obviously.

Whatever pitch he makes where the guys are done swinging and then the ball comes in low and/or bounces off the plate is a great one. I'm guessing it was his change.

His fastball had plenty of pop in it and he must have been spotting it great because there were a lot of called strikes.

He looked great from the stretch.

That one homerun to LF is an easy fly ball, and those two stingers past 3rd base would have been easy ground balls. Other than that, he really didn't give up many "real" MLB hits.

Just my observations.

PEACE

-BLEEDS

That had to be great to be in Omaha to watch that. One of these days I'm going to go.

[fearofpopvol1]

Originally Posted by redsof72

A little too much is made of the tendenitis, in my opinion. Many pitchers pitch with some soreness in their arms every time they pitch. You could say that half the starting pitchers in the minor leagues are pitching with some tendenitis. Only Leake knows how much it is bothering him. If it is bothering him enough that he starts changing his delivery/arm angle, putting stress on other parts of his arm (especially the elbow), then you have a problem.

I would be more concerned with simply the number of innings he has thrown this season, and that total is quite high. College baseball is a different world. Guys throw 160 pitches in a college game, then turn pro, and see their pitch limit cut to 90. Matt Fairel told me his pitch limit at Florida State was 140. I think the Serrano kid the Reds drafted out of Oral Roberts threw 168 pitches in his last start (against Arizona State ironically).

I don't expect to see Leake sign until a few hours before the deadline. He has thrown his last inning until instructional league, and he won't throw many there either.

College coaches have different priorities. Some are more abusive than others, but they all are paid to win games. They are not in a developmental situation. They would tell you that if they thought it was hurting the kid to let him throw 140 pitches, then they wouldn't do it. They are convinced that what they are doing is ok. I do know this: The game Pat Murphy was trying to win was as important to him as it was to Charlie Manuel for the Phillies in the World Series last October.

I remember, years ago, a kid from my hometown threw 180 pitches in a game in the college world series and then made a relief appearance THE NEXT NIGHT for that team. That was total craziness. That coach is in the top 10 all-time in career victories in college baseball. Different world. Different priorities.

I don't doubt 1 word you're saying. In fact, I think it's true. But don't you think the kids should be skeptical or say something? I realize that makes them look "un-cool," but it is their future there too. A career ending arm injury before you sign your contract or throwing out your arm before your arbitration eligible isn't going to help your chances at getting rich.

I guess basically, I'm thinking there should be a middle ground between doing what's best for the team and what's best for the kid.

[Scrap Irony]

In football and basketball, players who play hurt are "warriors" and are glorified. Why would baseball athletes be different than others?

You're thinking in terms of professional contracts. They're thinking of winnings conference, regional, and national championships.

[redsof72]

You hope the college coaches don't cross the line. We are talking really about two different things here: 1) Pitching with an injury; 2) Overuse.

No minor league pitching coach would ever, ever let a 21 year old kid throw 140 pitches in a game in this day and age. If he did, the next day, when that pitcher came to the ballpark, he would have a different pitching coach because the other one would have been fired. Do you think that pitch limit is because of his concern for the kid or because he is protecting the organization's investment? The minor league pitching coach is paid to develop the kid. The college coach is paid to win games. The intensity to win at the college level is so far beyond what you see in the minor leagues that it is two totally different worlds.

The kid has to be smart. But does he know the difference between normal soreness and something that might be more serious? He is 20 or 21 years old. I see players in the minors that age that don't have the maturity to understand you can't stay out until 2:00 a.m. the night before you pitch. An adult would understand that with potentially millions to make, you get your rest. Is the kid going to say, hey, it is the CWS and I am able to get hitters out and my team is counting on me and we worked all season to get to this point, but I am going to shut it down? Probably not. And quite honestly, unless you are a first rounder, the odds are, you may never get to pitch in another game as big as the one you are in now.

I don't know the Leake situation at all. I do know the Reds sixth round pick, Serrano, threw 168 pitches in his last start, and I know the pitchers on the Dayton team are out of the game at around 90 pitches. I know both the college coach and the Dayton coach are both doing what they think is best and the kid is in the middle.

I also know that we, as Reds fans, underestimate how important it is to college coaches to win. If the kid tells him he is ok to go out for another inning and the kid is pitching well, the last thing some coaches are thinking about is where that same kid is going to be pitching in five years. Certainly, some are better and worse than others when it comes to thinking about the interests of the pitcher.

[bubbachunk]

Originally Posted by Scrap Irony

In football and basketball, players who play hurt are "warriors" and are glorified. Why would baseball athletes be different than others?

You're thinking in terms of professional contracts. They're thinking of winnings conference, regional, and national championships.

Probably because most guys who do that in those sports are not threatening their career by playing in that one game. Very very rarely does playing with a sprained ankle lead to a guy having surgery that can rob him of at least a year and possibly the rest of his career.

[Blitz Dorsey]

The problem is... what often is diagnosed as "tendonitis" is actually something more serious. Not always, but often.

I'm encouraged after seeing Leake his last start that he does not have a serious injury, but I just wanted to point that out. I can't count the number of times over the years I've heard a pitcher has tendonitis and then magically a couple weeks later he goes on the DL for a month or three.

[camisadelgolf]

tendinitis = bad mechanics or overuse or both