Scott Rolen traded to the Reds

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Joseph

Is Stewart the real deal? I have no clue, its all only speculation. I just know Gruler and Howington and Wagner were all gonna save this teams backside. Before that there were the Pughs and Ropers. Before that....well the beat goes on. Stewart may well be Toronto's next ace we just don't know.

At the same time only Wagner showed anything close to what Stewart has shown at a high level, and he did that as a reliever, not as a starter. Gruler never made it anywhere and was all of 19 before he was toast due to injuries. Howington made it to AA, struggled mightily with his control, then got hurt. Stewart has a 1.67 ERA in A+, AA and AAA this year with two plus pitches and control. Its not quite the same comparison. Stewart is an unproven, but he isn't exactly an unknown. He has gotten it done in outstanding fashion all the way up the ladder so far with both stuff and control. The Reds haven't had many guys like that in the last 40 years. Cueto is the only guy in that same sentence from the last 25.

[gm]

When Walt took over I said he's going to improve the defense, and the two most egregious clankers were Dunn and EdE. It took a little longer than I expected, but now they're outta here

Meanwhile, it doesn't look like Tony and the Cardies are missing ol' Jock all that much

[Jpup]

Originally Posted by redsfan1966

First reaction for me is why? What does this deal really gain us? The only thing I can take from it, and others have mentioned this, is that we are starting to position ourselves for '10 beginning now...hopefully the off-season will also consist of moves to supplement this deal....

.500 baby!

[dsmith421]

Originally Posted by Kc61

Everyone here is selling Walt Jocketty way too short. He's a solid guy, hamstrung by finances. I never thought his goal was to wait out the farm and I still don't. He will be active this winter IMO, limited only by finances and value to trade.

If he can't take on salary, and he won't "sell the farm", how in the hell is going to be active this offseason?

Sounds like we're going to be in hot pursuit of the next Willy Taveras.

[RedEye]

Originally Posted by Kc61

The Reds have been "long-term planning" for 8 years now.
Sometimes short term planning is better. I don't know how they could have short-term planned their infield better than they just did.

Every move is not for the long term. Guys get hurt, or become free agents in the long term.

Maybe I should have written "short-term" planning. Anyway, what I meant was planning in general. Without several other moves, I don't think Rolen makes sense for this team. Unfortunately, given recent FO activities, I don't have any confidence that there are more parts to this plan. Instead, it strikes me as one of those "let's get a name everybody knows to quiet the fan base" type deals.

If Walt has more up his sleeve in the months to come, I will stand corrected--at least on my charge that it doesn't "make sense." I hope I eat crow on this... I really do.

[ochre]

Encarnacion ?= Polanco
Roenicke ?= Timlin
Stewart ?= Smith

Based on potential (unkown with JR v. known with MT), I'd say Roenicke > Timlin.
Stewart v. Smith is probably a wash. (And provides an example of how quickly a prospect's shine can tarnish)

Polanco would probably get the nod over Encarnacion, but I don't think it's quite as glaring as it seems in hindsight. Polanco has turned into a nice player, but I don't think he was particularly highly regarded at the time.

I think, on some levels, it could be argued that WJ just gave up more for the '09 Rolen than he did for the '02 Rolen. I know Rolen had some leverage (and was applying said leverage) with the Phillies, but it seems to me that WJ just overpaid.

[edabbs44]

Originally Posted by dsmith421

If he can't take on salary, and he won't "sell the farm", how in the hell is going to be active this offseason?

Sounds like we're going to be in hot pursuit of the next Willy Taveras.

Hopefully he deals some money.

[CTA513]

Originally Posted by gm

When Walt took over I said he's going to improve the defense, and the two most egregious clankers were Dunn and EdE. It took a little longer than I expected, but now they're outta here

Meanwhile, it doesn't look like Tony and the Cardies are missing ol' Jock all that much

If the Reds didn't want Encarnacion then they shouldn't have given him a 2 year deal.

[westofyou]

Originally Posted by M2

I agree that in the big picture it's hard to figure why the Reds made this deal. If they aren't after a half dozen other important additions, it won't matter.

Jeff Russell for Buddy Bell 2.0

[kaldaniels]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

At the same time only Wagner showed anything close to what Stewart has shown at a high level, and he did that as a reliever, not as a starter. Gruler never made it anywhere and was all of 19 before he was toast due to injuries. Howington made it to AA, struggled mightily with his control, then got hurt. Stewart has a 1.67 ERA in A+, AA and AAA this year with two plus pitches and control. Its not quite the same comparison. Stewart is an unproven, but he isn't exactly an unknown. He has gotten it done in outstanding fashion all the way up the ladder so far with both stuff and control. The Reds haven't had many guys like that in the last 40 years. Cueto is the only guy in that same sentence from the last 25.

Whoa...by my count Stewart has started a total of 7 starts at AA or higher. Only 14 total starts in his entire career...how can you expect me to get past your 1st sentence?

[dsmith421]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

Hopefully he deals some money.

More piles of cash to spend on garbage like Taveras and Lincoln.

[M2]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Jeff Russell for Buddy Bell 2.0

Good comp. I liked the Buddy Bell years. Now it's time to find Bo Diaz.

[Jpup]

Originally Posted by dsmith421

More piles of cash to spend on garbage like Taveras and Lincoln.

What does, my boy, Lincoln have to do with this? Dude's got a bad neck. He'll be back.

[PuffyPig]

Originally Posted by Eric_the_Red

Wild thought here: maybe neither team got realy quality. Perhaps Rolen declines as he ages and gets hurt. Maybe EE continues to play 3rd like a DH and never develops his bat, Stewart never reaches the majors and Roenicke is a midle of the road middle reliever.

The first part is already true, Rolen has already declined and gets hurt.

I think we gave up more for Rolen than the Cards did about 10 years ago.

[Team Clark]

Originally Posted by edabbs44

Except they also have some serious injury problems with their young pitching.

To some degree that is true, but don't discount what Doug said. There coaches THROUGHOUT their system are TOP NOTCH. One or two of their guys gets hurt they can dig a little deeper in the bag. The Reds can not.