Scott Rolen traded to the Reds

[WVRedsFan]

I have to think that the Reds gavee up on Edwin, decided he had to go no matter what they got in return, and thought bringing in a player of the stature of Rolen would reap benefits in the future. I doubt we'll see Rolen much longer than next year, but he'll bring some veteran presence (there's that phrase again) to the team and he can lead by example.

I'm really not into slitting my wrists over losing a third sacker who was error prone and never lived up to his potential. I wish Edwin well, but I'm glad to see him go because all anyone was ever going to see was what he was. As for the other two players...who know what they might become. Remember we released some relievers who have done well, but we released some who have been stinkers, too. You never know, but you do know that Rolen will be stellar while he's here. Injuries? Wasn't Edwin out for two months? How about the RedsZone darling Volquez? It happens even when you're young and is a part of the game.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by traderumor

I dunno, the hand wringing over Zach Stewart kind of reminds me of Zach Ward hand wringing a few years back http://www.baseball-reference.com/mi...d=ward--001zac

Then again, it could BJ Ryan, part deuex. Just never know with pitching prospects, do ya?

The only thing Ward and Stewart had in common was a lot of ground balls. Stewart has two legit plus pitches and success in the high minors.

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

Anybody know what the response on Bluejayzone is like?

I'm guessing they're wondering why they gave up a guy having a rebound season for a guy hitting .200 that can't throw the ball to first base

[nate]

Originally Posted by Tom Servo

Anybody know what the response on Bluejayzone is like?

I was just wondering the same thing!

[gm]

Originally Posted by westofyou

Jeff Russell for Buddy Bell 2.0

I still rank an aged Bell as the Red's #1 all-around 3rd baseman in the modern era

(Heine Groh doesn't qualify, and neither does Peter Edward or Doggie)

Rolen has a chance to be #2...Spuds had better not look behind him

[pedro]

I'm not going to get my panties in a bunch over the loss of a pitching prospect, especially a Reds one. I've been a Reds fan for the better part of 30 years and Trevor Hoffman is the only guy I can think of who went somewhere else and really had that much of a significant career. And, well, you all know what happened with the guys that stayed. Most of them sucked.

[WVRedsFan]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

If we couldn't do it now why would we be able to in December?

You probably never will. You'll have to give them away, but that's the problem with early extended contracts. They seldom work out, a lesson Wayne didn't learn.

[RedEye]

Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine

Alonso + EdE would have been a better deal than this one.

Really? I mean, I realize they are both highly questionable deals. But I would call the Alonso + EE deal "unbelievably awful" and this one just plain "bad."

[Cyclone792]

Originally Posted by RedsBaron

His HOF Monitor score is only 64. Mind you, the HOF Monitor doesn't measure how good a player really is/was, only how his stats compare to the average member of the Hall of Fame. Rolen is a long way from the score of 100 of the "average" member of the HOF and, at age 34, I don't like his chances at this point.

Right, who knows with the BBWAA anymore. I probably should have prefaced that by stating he's a Hall of Famer in my book. When I look at third sackers, Rolen's higher on that list than most people believe. The last time I looked closely at third basemen, I had Rolen pegged as 11th all-time which is easily good enough for the Hall for me.

Of course, the three guys I have pegged in the 8-9-10 slots (Santo, Hack and Groh) aren't in the Hall either so who knows.

[TheNext44]

Originally Posted by Raisor

OPS for NL LFers
2009-776
2008-802
2007-834
2006-837


Edwin Career: 793.

There's not a big difference.

Reds can't get by with a league average LF. They have that now. They need a big bat there. And who knows how well EE would play it.

[RedsManRick]

How highly regarded was Bud Smith when he was part of the package that landed Rolen in St. Louis?

I'm not happy about giving up Stewart, but let's be realistic about the range of possibilities. It's not just makes the majors versus doesn't. He could end up as a back of the rotation guy. He could be a middle reliever. While the odds of him making the majors is pretty high at this point, that's still a long way from being a big contributor.

Don't get me wrong, I loathe this trade -- but it's because EE will be a very cost effective 3B/DH for the next few years and because Roenicke is an effective middle reliever right now. Even if Stewart doesn't pan out at all, the Jays are likely going to get more value than the Reds.

[gm]

Originally Posted by M2

Good comp. I liked the Buddy Bell years. Now it's time to find Bo Diaz.

Where were you? Jock got "Bo Diaz" last winter in a trade for Farney

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

The only thing Ward and Stewart had in common was a lot of ground balls. Stewart has two legit plus pitches and success in the high minors.

Yea, I knew that is what you would say. Folks were pretty high on Ward and upset when we traded him for "f'ing Kyle Lohse," and you now have the benefit of hindsight on Ward.

I respect your knowledge of the Reds farm system, but seriously, the hyperbole you've been throwing around about Stewart in this thread sounds like agent talk.

[corkedbat]

"Worthless, Moronic, Pitiful...Worthless, Moronic, Pitiful...Worthless, Moronic, Pitiful...Worthless, Moronic, Pitiful...Worthless, Moronic, Pitiful...Worthless, Moronic, Pitiful...Worthless, Moronic, Pitiful...Worthless, Moronic, Pitiful..."

--from the Dally Affirmations of Walter Jocketty

The problem with wanting the Reds to make deals are the brain donors for the Reds who will be making the deals. Zach Stewart's inclusion alone makes this a horrendous, terrible, putrid, steaming pile of...no, words really can't discribe how lothsome this is.

I don't care if Scott Rolen wins three straight triple crowns and Zach Stewart washes out, this is still a mind-bogglingly stupid trade to make. The fact that they seem to be planning on re-upping Rolen just magnifies their incompetence.

Scott Rolen's numbers are in decline and he's showing every sign of physical breakdown - no matter how great he was in the past - you do not take him for a rental or invest (waste) future resourceso n him. If they extend him for another two years and they get 162 games total from him, it's more than they deserve to expect (and they have no reason to believe that any of those games will be near peak performance either).

And to give up Zach Stewart in a deal like this sinks it well below the depths of the Taveras signing in terms of stupidity alone. Yeah, he's just a unproven prospect, but he's a TALENTED YOUNG PITCHER -one of the best arms in the system, an arm that can kep the ball on the ground and in the park and he's positioned to quite possible be a candidate for your starting rotation. Even if Rolen surprises and Stewart utterly washes out, this is a monstrously stupid deal!

You want to include Stewart in a deal for a 3B? Fine! bring me Ryan Zimmerman - not a broken down 34 yo whose best days are way behind him.

I thought we might be in trouble wanting action from the Island of misfit baseball minds, but thi was beyond my wildest horror. Be careful what you wish for, Hello, ten more years of suck!

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Yea, I knew that is what you would say. Folks were pretty high on Ward and upset when we traded him for "f'ing Kyle Lohse," and you now have the benefit of hindsight on Ward.

I respect your knowledge of the Reds farm system, but seriously, the hyperbole you've been throwing around about Stewart in this thread sounds like agent talk.

You say people were high on Ward.... but he wasn't even a top 10 prospect in a weak system at time.