Keith Law looks at traded prospects - RedsZone.com - Cincinnati Reds Fans' Home for Baseball Discussion

LincolnparkRed · 08-03-2009, 12:29 PM

Gave away the 4th an 6th best prospects according to this

Wallace best of traded prospects
Saturday, August 1, 2009 | Feedback | Print Entry
A slew of prospects moved in the days leading up to the trade deadline, although nearly all were second-tier prospects, since buyers refused to part with long lists of "untouchable" prospects. Here's a rundown of the top 10 prospects who had to pack their bags in a hurry:

1. Brett Wallace, 3B, from St. Louis to Oakland: Wallace is the only impact prospect among all minor leaguers who changed hands in the past two weeks, and his is a special case, since he may have to move to first base, a position the Cardinals reserve for players with superhuman abilities. Wallace should be somewhere in Oakland's starting lineup next April.

2. Nick Hagadone, LHP, from Boston to Cleveland: Hagadone is just 26 innings into his return from Tommy John surgery, and while his development was slowed by the injury and long layoff, at worst he looks like a very good late-game reliever who can get left- and right-handed hitters out. There's still a chance he can develop into a starter, although that's going to take time.

3. Josh Bell, 3B, from L.A. Dodgers to Baltimore: Bell looks as though he'll develop into at least a solid-average third baseman for Baltimore if he can solve his problems against left-handed pitching; the O's must either clean up his entire approach from the right side or make him give up switch-hitting.

4. Zach Stewart, RHP, from Cincinnati to Toronto: Stewart sits in the mid-90s with great sink on his fastball -- he's given up just three home runs in 124 pro innings -- and has a slider as a potential out pitch. He's already in Triple-A in his first full pro season and could make his debut later this year if the Jays are willing to put him on the 40-man roster.

5. Aaron Poreda, LHP, from Chicago White Sox to San Diego: Poreda has a plus fastball with plus movement but lacks an average second pitch. He could pitch in the Padres' bullpen right away.

6. Josh Roenicke, RHP, from Cincinnati to Toronto: The son of former big league outfielder Gary Roenicke, Josh has a big arm with a plus slider of his own, with more velocity but less fastball life than Stewart. One of these two arms acquired for Scott Rolen should end up Toronto's closer in the next few years.

7. Jason Knapp, RHP, from Philadelphia to Cleveland: Knapp has a big arm and a violent delivery; he's had great success as an 18-year-old in full-season ball, but is currently on the shelf with minor shoulder fatigue.

8. Carlos Carrasco, RHP, from Philadelphia to Cleveland: Carrasco has had success in the minor leagues without a plus pitch, although on a good day he will show three average pitches. The Phillies had soured on Carrasco's makeup, allowing Cleveland to pick him up as a distressed asset.

9. Tim Alderson, RHP, from San Francisco to Pittsburgh: Alderson, a former first-rounder, has outstanding command of three pitches, but his velocity is two grades below where it was in high school, and there's a chance he's only a fifth starter.

10. Bryan Price, RHP, from Boston to Cleveland: Price is in his first full pro year and his first year as a starter after he was an infrequently used reliever and spot starter at Rice; he has the stuff to pitch in the middle of a big league rotation but has been hit around some in high-A and he has already thrown more innings this year than he did in all of 2008, including his collegiate work.

BRM · 08-03-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Wallace is the only impact prospect among all minor leaguers who changed hands in the past two weeks

I think a lot of folks here will disagree with that statement.

GIDP · 08-03-2009, 12:32 PM

We gave up 2 of the top 6 for Rolen and Phillies gave up 7 and 8th for Lee. What could have been.

princeton · 08-03-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIDP

We gave up 2 of the top 6 for Rolen and Phillies gave up 7 and 8th for Lee. What could have been.

good observation. I like White Sox heist best though. I've always said that Kenny Williams is a hedgehog.

LincolnparkRed · 08-03-2009, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princeton

good observation. I like White Sox heist best though. I've always said that Kenny Williams is a hedgehog.

Even worse, the Phils gave up an injured pitcher and one that is kinds blah from his description

SoTxRedsFan · 08-03-2009, 12:56 PM

#2 and #4 pitching prospect to be traded and we got Scott Freaking Rolen.

Awful!

corkedbat · 08-03-2009, 01:37 PM

I believe the Indians received 11 prospects back in the deals they made prior to the deadline (including the Lee and VMart deals). According to this, both prospects we gave ( up were better than all but one of the 11 they received and we threw in EdE to boot!. For what? A a 1yr rental of a 3B with declining numbers and dubious health who will not help this team compete for anything meaningful. A total, inexcusable waste. Jocketty should be roasted on a stake at home plate. What could we have added to those two for Cliff Lee or a SS?

LincolnparkRed · 08-03-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corkedbat

I believe the Indians received 11 prospects back in the deals they made prior to the deadline (including the Lee and VMart deals). According to this, both prospects we gave ( up were better than all but one of the 11 they received and we threw in EdE to boot!. For what? A a 1yr rental of a 3B with declining numbers and dubious health who will not help this team compete for anything meaningful. A total, inexcusable waste. Jocketty should be roasted on a stake at home plate. What could we have added to those two for Cliff Lee or a SS?

dude we already have a shortstop. Alex Gonzalez is back, what more could we need.

corkedbat · 08-03-2009, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LincolnparkRed

dude we already have a shortstop. Alex Gonzalez is back, what more could we need.

Naw, AGon can fill the LF hole.

Caveat Emperor · 08-03-2009, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoTxRedsFan

#2 and #4 pitching prospect to be traded and we got Scott Freaking Rolen.

Awful!

I wonder if, on PadresZone.com back in 2005 there was an uproar about trading two of their top-10 prospects for Joe Randa.

Anyone seen Travis Chick (4th best prospect, per BA in '05) or Justin Germano (7th best prospcet, per BA in '05) recently?

GIDP · 08-03-2009, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor

I wonder if, on PadresZone.com back in 2005 there was an uproar about trading two of their top-10 pitching prospects for Joe Randa.

Anyone seen Travis Chick or Justin Germano recently?

I think the point is we what we got for what they gave up compared to what other teams got for what they gave up.

Superdude · 08-03-2009, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Anyone seen Travis Chick (4th best prospect, per BA in '05) or Justin Germano (7th best prospcet, per BA in '05) recently?

How was the Padres system back then? Germano was a soft tossing right hander and Chick threw decently hard without any results if I remember correctly.

GIDP · 08-03-2009, 02:18 PM

too many people view #1s from one system to be the same as #1s from other systems also. Its not a 1:1 ratio.

Doc. Scott · 08-03-2009, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Superdude

How was the Padres system back then? Germano was a soft tossing right hander and Chick threw decently hard without any results if I remember correctly.

Chick is still in Double-A all these years later- he's reliving his own personal Groundhog Day on a bus in the Confederacy.

Caveat Emperor · 08-03-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIDP

too many people view #1s from one system to be the same as #1s from other systems also. Its not a 1:1 ratio.

Of course it's not, but the point is that these kids are all prospects -- equally as likely to be selling insurance 4 years from now as the next guy.

You can sit and be paralyzed by what if -- what if this kid becomes a star, what if that kid becomes a star, what if I trade the next Curt Schilling, what if I hold onto him and he gets rocked by real hitters and loses his value -- or you can go run a franchise.

I'm sick of the Reds getting crummy prospects from teams, and holding onto "can't miss" guys only to see them crap the bed in the bigs. These guys are commodities to be bought and sold and are only worth what they can contribute to the big-league team in terms of Wins and Losses / Runs-Scored and Runs-Prevented. Getting attached to them is mistake #1, assuming continued success through the development process is mistake #2, and hording them in the hope of building a championship team entirely made of 20-somethings mistake #3.

Scouts like Stewart. Scouts have liked lots of guys the Reds have acquired over the years (fun fact -- saying a guy projects to a "#3/#4 starter" is scout-speak for "I have no clue what the hell this guy is going to do"). Scouts have liked a lot of guys traded over the years. Anyone want to go back and do the math as to how often the scouts were right? I'm guessing that number is less than 100%.

I'm not saying it's a good deal or a bad deal. It's a deal. Let it play out before you draw and quarter the guy making it.

08-03-2009, 12:56 PM	#6
SoTxRedsFan Bleeding Red in the South Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 166	Re: Keith Law looks at traded prospects #2 and #4 pitching prospect to be traded and we got Scott Freaking Rolen. Awful!

08-03-2009, 01:37 PM	#7
corkedbat Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Lexington Posts: 4,951	Re: Keith Law looks at traded prospects I believe the Indians received 11 prospects back in the deals they made prior to the deadline (including the Lee and VMart deals). According to this, both prospects we gave ( up were better than all but one of the 11 they received and we threw in EdE to boot!. For what? A a 1yr rental of a 3B with declining numbers and dubious health who will not help this team compete for anything meaningful. A total, inexcusable waste. Jocketty should be roasted on a stake at home plate. What could we have added to those two for Cliff Lee or a SS? Last edited by corkedbat; 08-03-2009 at 01:39 PM.

08-03-2009, 02:18 PM	#13
GIDP Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6,419	Re: Keith Law looks at traded prospects too many people view #1s from one system to be the same as #1s from other systems also. Its not a 1:1 ratio.

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08-03-2009, 12:29 PM	#1
LincolnparkRed Designated Threadkiller Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,789	Keith Law looks at traded prospects Gave away the 4th an 6th best prospects according to this Wallace best of traded prospects Saturday, August 1, 2009 \| Feedback \| Print Entry A slew of prospects moved in the days leading up to the trade deadline, although nearly all were second-tier prospects, since buyers refused to part with long lists of "untouchable" prospects. Here's a rundown of the top 10 prospects who had to pack their bags in a hurry: 1. Brett Wallace, 3B, from St. Louis to Oakland: Wallace is the only impact prospect among all minor leaguers who changed hands in the past two weeks, and his is a special case, since he may have to move to first base, a position the Cardinals reserve for players with superhuman abilities. Wallace should be somewhere in Oakland's starting lineup next April. 2. Nick Hagadone, LHP, from Boston to Cleveland: Hagadone is just 26 innings into his return from Tommy John surgery, and while his development was slowed by the injury and long layoff, at worst he looks like a very good late-game reliever who can get left- and right-handed hitters out. There's still a chance he can develop into a starter, although that's going to take time. 3. Josh Bell, 3B, from L.A. Dodgers to Baltimore: Bell looks as though he'll develop into at least a solid-average third baseman for Baltimore if he can solve his problems against left-handed pitching; the O's must either clean up his entire approach from the right side or make him give up switch-hitting. 4. Zach Stewart, RHP, from Cincinnati to Toronto: Stewart sits in the mid-90s with great sink on his fastball -- he's given up just three home runs in 124 pro innings -- and has a slider as a potential out pitch. He's already in Triple-A in his first full pro season and could make his debut later this year if the Jays are willing to put him on the 40-man roster. 5. Aaron Poreda, LHP, from Chicago White Sox to San Diego: Poreda has a plus fastball with plus movement but lacks an average second pitch. He could pitch in the Padres' bullpen right away. 6. Josh Roenicke, RHP, from Cincinnati to Toronto: The son of former big league outfielder Gary Roenicke, Josh has a big arm with a plus slider of his own, with more velocity but less fastball life than Stewart. One of these two arms acquired for Scott Rolen should end up Toronto's closer in the next few years. 7. Jason Knapp, RHP, from Philadelphia to Cleveland: Knapp has a big arm and a violent delivery; he's had great success as an 18-year-old in full-season ball, but is currently on the shelf with minor shoulder fatigue. 8. Carlos Carrasco, RHP, from Philadelphia to Cleveland: Carrasco has had success in the minor leagues without a plus pitch, although on a good day he will show three average pitches. The Phillies had soured on Carrasco's makeup, allowing Cleveland to pick him up as a distressed asset. 9. Tim Alderson, RHP, from San Francisco to Pittsburgh: Alderson, a former first-rounder, has outstanding command of three pitches, but his velocity is two grades below where it was in high school, and there's a chance he's only a fifth starter. 10. Bryan Price, RHP, from Boston to Cleveland: Price is in his first full pro year and his first year as a starter after he was an infrequently used reliever and spot starter at Rice; he has the stuff to pitch in the middle of a big league rotation but has been hit around some in high-A and he has already thrown more innings this year than he did in all of 2008, including his collegiate work. __________________ Climbing down from the bridge, but keeping the torch lit until Dusty's fate is settled

08-03-2009, 12:32 PM	#3
GIDP Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 6,419	Re: Keith Law looks at traded prospects We gave up 2 of the top 6 for Rolen and Phillies gave up 7 and 8th for Lee. What could have been.