Okay to start worrying about Rolen's head injury?

[Falls City Beer]

Wonder how the exquisite medical staff of this team will handle this--ehem--nagging issue?

[Spring~Fields]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

Wonder how the exquisite medical staff of this team will handle this--ehem--nagging issue?

I have lost confidence in that medical staff or the source of the medical reports. Seems like we get a watered down type report as if there is nothing serious to be concerned about with some players and then with a bit of time going by it comes out that it is a serious issue. Where's the credibility in the reporting?

[HeatherC1212]

I'd rather them be extra cautious with Scott right now more than anything else because of how serious head injuries can be. I really hope he's all right.

[Tom Servo]

This sucks. Stupid Jason Marquis.

[wheels]

Originally Posted by HeatherC1212

I'd rather them be extra cautious with Scott right now more than anything else because of how serious head injuries can be. I really hope he's all right.

That's for sure.

I smashed my head on the ice last winter and was even more off and goofy than I normally am for a month, at least.

They should shut him down.

[mth123]

This is a perfect example of how the Reds took all the risk in this deal.

Its not Rolen's fault, but he may be out for an extended period for the rest of 2009 and the Reds needlessly gave up prospects to cover his salary for the rest of the year.

Could've waited until the offseason when much less contract money was needed and lesser prospects could have been involved.

Not saying that the Reds could have predicted this, but the risk giving up prospects to recoup money that really wasn't necessary was always there. Especially true when you consider that even if Rolen played at All Star level in August and Sept of 2009 that it would have made little difference.

The Reds could have acquired Rolen over the winter without giving up nearly as much as they gave.

[Falls City Beer]

Originally Posted by mth123

The Reds could have acquired Rolen over the winter without giving up nearly as much as they gave.

You have no way of knowing this.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by Falls City Beer

You have no way of knowing this.

You are right, but the money coming back to cover this year's salary was a big part of the package. With less money involved the return to Toronto should have been less. If not, then walk away. The whole problem with this deal is that Walt was not willing to walk away if the price got too high. He "gave in."

[I(heart)Freel]

Don't under estimate how much the FO values Rolen's role as a clubhouse leader. The only way he's comfortable enough to lead (and have the other players look up to him) is with time.

If the rest of this pathetic season does nothing else, it should allow Rolen to get his "leadership" feet under him as a Red, so on day one of spring training next year he can just do it. Maybe that's why the Reds got him in here at this deadline instead of in the off season.

Having said that, he can totally sit during this injury and still lead and still gain the respect of his teammates. Again, it will be more needed next year. But by then he'll be primed for the role.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by I(heart)Freel

Don't under estimate how much the FO values Rolen's role as a clubhouse leader. The only way he's comfortable enough to lead (and have the other players look up to him) is with time.

If the rest of this pathetic season does nothing else, it should allow Rolen to get his "leadership" feet under him as a Red, so on day one of spring training next year he can just do it. Maybe that's why the Reds got him in here at this deadline instead of in the off season.

Having said that, he can totally sit during this injury and still lead and still gain the respect of his teammates. Again, it will be more needed next year. But by then he'll be primed for the role.

I keep hearing this about leadership and maybe its true. I just don't know, but I have to wonder if its overstated. Why was he run out of Philly and why did Larussa banish him from St. Louis? The guy and his Hall of Fame manager openly held each other in contempt. Doesn't sound like a leader, but I really don't know the circumstances. Anybody have the scoop on Rolen's history in the area?

[traderumor]

Originally Posted by mth123

This is a perfect example of how the Reds took all the risk in this deal.

Its not Rolen's fault, but he may be out for an extended period for the rest of 2009 and the Reds needlessly gave up prospects to cover his salary for the rest of the year.

Could've waited until the offseason when much less contract money was needed and lesser prospects could have been involved.

Not saying that the Reds could have predicted this, but the risk giving up prospects to recoup money that really wasn't necessary was always there. Especially true when you consider that even if Rolen played at All Star level in August and Sept of 2009 that it would have made little difference.

The Reds could have acquired Rolen over the winter without giving up nearly as much as they gave.

Well then, they better not sign anybody ever again because the opposing pitcher might bean him. But then, I guess I see your point, since he wouldn't have been in Cincinnati on that day. Therefore, it is really WJ's and JP's fault that he got beaned.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by traderumor

Well then, they better not sign anybody ever again because the opposing pitcher might bean him.

Not the point at all and you know it.

The Reds gave up prospects to cover this year's salary. Now, there seems to be a call to be really cautious with him (and I agree BTW) because this year is toast. So if this year doesn't matter, why trade for him now when the Salary would need to be covered by throwing in more prospects to get him. There was no upside to acquiring Rolen in 2009. If the Reds wanted to upgrade from EdE in 2010 I would have been all for it, but by doing it now, they took on a salary differential that required the Reds give up talent to cover it. The Reds took all the risk. The Jays were going to pay Rolen anyway, but now they have the team's top pitching prospect for doing so while the Reds have a guy who really makes no difference to 2009. Not worth it.

Go get him in the winter when the 2009 salary differential is no longer an issue and added talent wouldn't have been required to get him. He wanted to come here. I have no way to know, but I'd bet he'd still be there for the Reds in the winter had WJ passed for now. If not, there are other guys that could have upgraded the spot without giving up Stewart. Like the Willy T signining before it, this was a move that gave up resources unnecessarily.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by mth123

Not the point at all and you know it.

The Reds gave up prospects to cover this year's salary. Now, there seems to be a call to be really cautious with him (and I agree BTW) because this year is toast. So if this year doesn't matter, why trade for him now when the Salary would need to be covered by throwing in more prospects to get him. There was no upside to acquiring Rolen in 2009. If the Reds wanted to upgrade from EdE in 2010 I would have been all for it, but by doing it now, they took on a salary differential that required the Reds give up talent to cover it. The Reds took all the risk. The Jays were going to pay Rolen anyway, but now they have the team's top pitching prospect for doing so while the Reds have a guy who really makes no difference to 2009. Not worth it.

Go get him in the winter when the 2009 salary differential is no longer an issue and added talent wouldn't have been required to get him. He wanted to come here. I have no way to know, but I'd bet he'd still be there for the Reds in the winter had WJ passed for now. If not, there are other guys that could have upgraded the spot without giving up Stewart. Like the Willy T signining before it, this was a move that gave up resources unnecessarily.

Complete speculation. We don't know whether the Reds could have acquired Rolen next winter, whether Stewart would have been required, it's all speculative. Situations change. The Reds saw an available player they wanted and seized the moment.

And to say that the Reds took all the risk in the deal -- the Jays got two unproven pitchers and a third baseman who made 26 errors last year. I'd say the Reds return was pretty predictable, it's the Jays who took lots of risk, and paid millions to the Reds for the privilege.

Rolen got hit in the head in the line of duty. He'll probably be out for a week or ten days and back. He should be fine for next year.

And while I wasn't a huge advocate for this deal, I will say that Zach Stewart is being treated like Sandy Koufax on this board. Last off-season, BA didn't rate him in the Reds top ten. He a very good ground ball pitching prospect, which has value, but let's not exaggerate it. If the Reds sign their two top draft choices, he should be replaced.

[mth123]

The Reds recieved Scott Rolen and Cash to cover his 2009 Salary. As a result, the Jays received back talent. Had cash for 09 not been involved, I have to think the talent required would have been less. So the Reds give up talent to acquire a guy and the money to pay him in a year that was already lost. Makes no sense.

As for Stewart, He's not Sandy Koufax. But for a team like the Reds to have a decent rotation, they have to fill spots from within. The team needs more guys like Stewart in order to increase the chance of having one actually make it. After this deal they have none. No one is of his caliber. Keep him or deal him for pitching. Dealing him for "salary relief" is about as unwise as signing Willy T for two years and handing him a job. In essence the team sold off its only real hope for upper rotation help in the upper minors for cash.

[Will M]

what happened?

did he just have to sit out another game or is he going on the DL?