Homer Bailey

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by jojo

I'm not sure why any decision must be prefaced by whether Homer's ERA is above or below 6.00.

It's simple in my view. The Reds should rid themselves of Homer when doing so makes them better.

There are probably numerous scenarios where they wouldn't actually be better and numerous scenarios where they would be better...

To me the real question being posed here, is that assuming Bailey has not been moved on to another organization coming into next season, what do you do with the guy if he still hasn't shown the ability to be a respectable rotation member?

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by Austin Kearns

I think you let him start in spring training.... but plan on putting him in the bullpen to start the year. Hopefully we will have signed some more established pitchers that start the year in the rotation with the better chance to succeed.

Bailey can likely pitch well out of the pen, perhaps be an asset, so I don't consider that to be a gamble of the roster spot in any sense. When injuries arise, or if Bailey shows something that would suggest he's ready to overtake a member of the rotation, you give him that chance. But no freebies.... putting up an ERA of 7 the rest of the way should in no way provide him the opportunity of a free spot in the rotation.

I agree with most of this, although I'd also consider swapping him for another similarly faded superprospect at a position of need (Brandon Wood?)

I also agree with those that say he may flourish a couple years from now with another organization. Unfortunately, there is not that much that the Reds can do about that now.

[M2]

Originally Posted by Benihana

I used to agree with this, but he must show some kind of improvement before I'm ready to watch this every fifth day for a full season. At a certain point, a lemon is just a lemon. Even the JimBo-led Reds realized this a few years ago with Brandon Claussen.

It was actually Krivsky who put the fork in Claussen (and Kullman who acquired him).

It's just with the Reds it often seems like JimBo never left.

[TRF]

You take your lumps with Bailey ala the Cubs and Maddux circa 1987. The will know what they have by september 2010 if anything.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by M2

It was actually Krivsky who put the fork in Claussen (and Kullman who acquired him).

It's just with the Reds it often seems like JimBo never left.

Ah, my bad

[Chip R]

Originally Posted by NJReds

The Reds don't do a lot of things that winning organizations do.

Indeed. But it's not like Earl Weaver's going to take over anytime soon.

[NJReds]

Originally Posted by Chip R

Indeed. But it's not like Earl Weaver's going to take over anytime soon.

Well, I guess my point was that this is what I would do w/Homer. Not necessarily what the Reds will do. Good organizations do put pitching prospects in the pen. And that's what I'd do with Bailey if he didn't make the rotation out of Spring Training.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by TRF

You take your lumps with Bailey ala the Cubs and Maddux circa 1987. The will know what they have by september 2010 if anything.

The difference is that Bailey is 2 years older than Maddux was, has significantly more major league experience (>50 IP) and has significantly worse results (worse ERA, K/9, BB/9) than Maddux did in 1987.

If Bailey can pull his ERA under 6.00 by the end of the year I'd agree with you that he is showing improvement and we should bear with him.

However if he doesn't...

[BRM]

Originally Posted by Benihana

The difference is that Bailey is 2 years older than Maddux was, has significantly more major league experience (>50 IP) and has significantly worse results (worse ERA, K/9, BB/9) than Maddux did in 1987.

If Bailey can pull his ERA under 6.00 by the end of the year I'd agree with you that he is showing improvement and we should bear with him.

However if he doesn't...

If he doesn't, put him in the pen.

[Jpup]

bullpen or whatever.

It's worked great for Phil Hughes. I think the Reds should do the same with Homer.

[Roy Tucker]

I'd like to see him go to the bullpen but I'm afraid the Reds don't have any better arms to trot out as as starter.

So I'm afraid they'll just continue to flog him in the '50's-style sink or swim kind of mentality they seem to have.

What happened to the vaunted new splitter he was supposed to throw?

[M2]

Originally Posted by BRM

If he doesn't, put him in the pen.

If he doesn't, send him hunting with this guy:

[CarolinaRedleg]

Provided he shows improvement, especially with Volquez down for the majority of 2010, and with the uncertainty of keeping Arroyo/Harang, there's no way you cut bait on Bailey.

And I misread. No improvement, try to get a nibble if you can....no nibble, stick him in the pen.

[redsmetz]

Originally Posted by WMR

Are we really to that point with Homer? He's still a baby in terms of a pitcher's growth.. 22 right?

I just really fear that the way the Reds absolutely screwed the pooch on his arb clock that he'll put it together a couple years after he leaves Cincy.

Of course, maybe he puts it together BECAUSE he leaves Cincinnati. There's a depressing thought for you.

We have seen some flashes from Homer this season...

Personally I think I've seen a much more mature Bailey this year. And I think he's putting it together. He's young still, he's a year younger than Claussen was when he came to us really.

Sure we've had pitchers who didn't pan out, who never really made good. Certainly the OP can set up his poll however he likes, but I disagree with his original assumption, that Bailey won't improve. I think he has already.

[GOYA]

Stick with Homer. Bruce too.

I think they'll both get better with a little more age on them.