Homer Bailey

[BRM]

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

If the Reds had some other hot top prospect and needed to clear out a rotation spot for him, I'd send him to the bullpen. But that's not the case, this is a team in desperate need of upside. Homer needs major league experience. Give it to him.

I don't think anyone is advocating removing him from the rotation this year. The discussion is focused on 2010.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Eric_the_Red

Actually I think some are. Many are starting to view him as a AAAA pitcher.

Not saying I agree, just sayin'.

Edwin Jackson also looked less than stellar early on in his career. ERA's of 7.30, 6.28, 5.45, 5.76. What is his ERA today? 2.62. You have to let a young pitcher grow. You have to let him go throw growing pains. ERA doesn't always tell you the whole story when you look at a pitcher. I really don't know a single person who has watched Homer this season, especially since July, who hasn't seen a changed pitcher.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Clay Bucholtz 08 and 09 ERA was 6.75 and 6.05. I wonder if Red Sox fans are itching to jettison him as eagerly as some Reds fans are?

I wonder how many Reds fans would jump for joy upon learning the Reds just acquired Bucholtz?

I wonder how many Reds fans would salivate over Brandon Morrow?

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Edwin Jackson also looked less than stellar early on in his career. ERA's of 7.30, 6.28, 5.45, 5.76. What is his ERA today? 2.62. You have to let a young pitcher grow. You have to let him go throw growing pains. ERA doesn't always tell you the whole story when you look at a pitcher. I really don't know a single person who has watched Homer this season, especially since July, who hasn't seen a changed pitcher.

So we are going to endure ERAs over 5.00 from our #3/4 pitcher for the next three seasons, and we're expecting to contend??

Edwin Jackson was also pitching in the big leagues at age 19, and also had better K/9 numbers than Bailey ever has.

[BRM]

Originally Posted by jojo

I wonder how many Reds fans would jump for joy upon learning the Reds just acquired Bucholtz?

I wonder how many Reds fans would salivate over Brandon Morrow?

Bucholz's ERA is a full run better than Homer's. Morrow's is almost two runs better. Both in the AL. Fans would probably consider that a nice improvement over Bailey.

[BRM]

Originally Posted by Benihana

So we are going to endure ERAs over 5.00 from our #3/4 pitcher for the next three seasons, and we're expecting to contend??

That's what I was thinking. Throw in Arroyo and Owings and their 5+ ERAs and this team is sunk. Sorta like the last 10 years.

[jojo]

Originally Posted by Benihana

So we are going to endure ERAs over 5.00 from our #3/4 pitcher for the next three seasons, and we're expecting to contend??

Edwin Jackson was also pitching in the big leagues at age 19, and also had better K/9 numbers than Bailey ever has.

I've ragged on Homer's command probably about as much as the next guy. Clearly he's shown significant stretches this year where his command simply isn't major league caliber.

My argument is pretty simple-there has to be a compelling reason to not have Bailey in the rotation next year and his ERA the rest of the way would be pretty low on my list of reasons.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Clay Bucholtz 08 and 09 ERA was 6.75 and 6.05. I wonder if Red Sox fans are itching to jettison him as eagerly as some Reds fans are?

First off, his name is Buchholz. Second, they are not letting him go bombs away in their major league rotation. They have the luxury of keeping him in the minors where he can refine his stuff, not overthrow, and not harm the big club. The Reds do not have that luxury.

And FWIW, I live in Boston. There are plenty of Sox fans that wouldn't shed too many tears if they did jettison Buchholz. They care a lot more about Daniel Bard than they do about Buchholz.

[Patrick Bateman]

Originally Posted by BRM

Bucholz's ERA is a full run better than Homer's. Morrow's is almost two runs better. Both in the AL. Fans would probably consider that a nice improvement over Bailey.

That's missing the point.

I agree with the thought of being patient with young guys like these, and to give them chances when it is merited. None of the above has shown the ability to succeed in the rotation yet.

But I would have trouble serving a rotation spot to Bailey next year, if he continues to show no major league improvement over the rest of the year.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by Austin Kearns

That's missing the point.

I agree with the thought of being patient with young guys like these, and to give them chances when it is merited. None of the above has shown the ability to succeed in the rotation yet.

But I would have trouble serving a rotation spot to Bailey next year, if he continues to show no major league improvement over the rest of the year.

Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!

We have a winner!!!

[BRM]

Originally Posted by Austin Kearns

That's missing the point.

I agree with the thought of being patient with young guys like these, and to give them chances when it is merited. None of the above has shown the ability to succeed in the rotation yet.

But I would have trouble serving a rotation spot to Bailey next year, if he continues to show no major league improvement over the rest of the year.

I know it's missing the point. I found jojo's post to be off-point so I was being facetious.

Like I said earlier, if the Reds sincerely plan to contend next year, then Bailey should absolutely not be handed a rotation spot. They need to find better pitchers. If it's another year of the same old, same old then give him a spot and hope he improves...eventually.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Benihana

First off, his name is Buchholz. Second, they are not letting him go bombs away in their major league rotation. They have the luxury of keeping him in the minors where he can refine his stuff, not overthrow, and not harm the big club. The Reds do not have that luxury.

And FWIW, I live in Boston. There are plenty of Sox fans that wouldn't shed too many tears if they did jettison Buchholz. They care a lot more about Daniel Bard than they do about Buchholz.

Sorry dude didn't realize I had a typo.

If you want to look solely at ERA in making your judgments on Homer that is your prerogative. I have seen a different pitcher, a pitcher who has made significant strides this season.

Do the Reds have anything better in the system right now? Why not give a pitcher with a very good arm a chance to work through his problems? Why jump all over him because he has a high era which is pretty typical with young pitchers?

[BRM]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Do the Reds have anything better in the system right now? Why not give a pitcher with a very good arm a chance to work through his problems? Why jump all over him because he has a high era which is pretty typical with young pitchers?

I think that's exactly what Benihana has proposed. Let him "work through it" the rest of this season. See if he can take steps forward. If he can't, don't hand him a rotation spot next year. Either put him in the pen or deal him.

[Benihana]

Originally Posted by bucksfan2

Sorry dude didn't realize I had a typo.

If you want to look solely at ERA in making your judgments on Homer that is your prerogative. I have seen a different pitcher, a pitcher who has made significant strides this season.

Do the Reds have anything better in the system right now? Why not give a pitcher with a very good arm a chance to work through his problems? Why jump all over him because he has a high era which is pretty typical with young pitchers?

I don't care if he has a fairly high ERA. All I'm saying is that he has to show improvement before he should be handed a spot in next year's rotation. He still has two months to do that. If he doesn't, he doesn't belong in any rotation- in the major leagues anyway.

It is typical for younger pitchers to have higher ERAs. But the ones who end up sticking around and having big league careers are the ones who improve. That's all Bailey needs to do- show some improvement.

Otherwise he's Braniel Cablaussen.

[bucksfan2]

Originally Posted by Benihana

I don't care if he has a fairly high ERA. All I'm saying is that he has to show improvement before he should be handed a spot in next year's rotation. He still has two months to do that. If he doesn't, he doesn't belong in any rotation- in the major leagues anyway.

It is typical for younger pitchers to have higher ERAs. But the ones who end up sticking around and having big league careers are the ones who improve. That's all Bailey needs to do- show some improvement.

Otherwise he's Braniel Cablaussen.

So you don't think he has improved from the start of this year until now?