Juan Fransisco is now a Louisville Bat!

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Brutus the Pimp

I don't see what Cozart being in AA has to do with Francisco. He does not play the same position. So promoting Francisco and not Cozart is a non-starter. Not even relevant to the discussion.

Sure it does. There was 1 open roster spot in AAA. Francisco got it despite the fact that the Bats have a 3B, but don't have a SS. They have even said they don't view Valaika as a SS (Rick Sweet said it earlier this year).

You could argue Frazier should have been called before Francisco, since they at least have some positional likeness to them. So if we're looking down the road, Frazier, in theory, would be ready first so he's the one they should call up. It seems to me, though, that they aren't planning on using Frazier at third, meaning then they really want to challenge Francisco.

Frazier playing 3rd or not playing 3rd doesn't matter much to me. He CAN play left and looking into 2010, the Reds don't have a left fielder. The Reds DO have a 3B. If Frazier were to perform well in AAA over the rest of August and into the playoffs you would imagine the Reds would at least entertain the idea of him as an option for 2010. They still may, but I doubt it. Fact is, both Frazier and Cozart COULD be options for 2010 spots of need. Francisco doesn't supply that same value at all.

[Kc61]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Drew Stubbs value isn't entirely reliant on his bat.

.

That doesn't answer the question. Drew Stubbs, even at age 24.5 plus, could easily make several trips back and forth between the majors and minors.

Doesn't mean Stubbs is bad. Just means that it's troublesome having players out of options that young.

In Francisco's case, there will be no choice. At that age, it's a major leagues only situation. So Reds need to advance him and get him ready to hit major league pitching as quickly as possible.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by Kc61

In Francisco's case, there will be no choice. At that age, it's a major leagues only situation. So Reds need to advance him and get him ready to hit major league pitching as quickly as possible.

Except he still has 1000 at bats worth of time to do that. The Reds have about 150 at bats to evaluate Frazier/Cozart before free agency starts and they have to make a decision to go out and get a starting left fielder and a starting shortstop.

[lollipopcurve]

The Reds have about 150 at bats to evaluate Frazier/Cozart before free agency starts and they have to make a decision to go out and get a starting left fielder and a starting shortstop.

This makes no sense. Frazier has been moved to 2B -- he's not being considered as a possibility in LF for the Reds next year. Cozart has faded in the 2nd half. He should not be considered a possibility for SS in Cincy next year.

This issue is getting way more play than it deserves, and leaving Frazier and Cozart in AA now will have zero impact on their careers.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

This makes no sense. Frazier has been moved to 2B -- he's not being considered as a possibility in LF for the Reds next year. Cozart has faded in the 2nd half. He should not be considered a possibility for SS in Cincy next year.

This issue is getting way more play than it deserves, and leaving Frazier and Cozart in AA now will have zero impact on their careers.

Cozart has faded because his BABIP since July has been .230, not because he has been struggling. As for Frazier, he was moved to 2B because he had shown he could handle the position. The Reds obviously aren't moving Phillips, so Frazier obviously isn't looking at 2B as a future home either really.

And even if you are correct in your assumption, Cozart still has a shot to help this team before Francisco simply because we have no SS and do have a 3B.

[mth123]

Originally Posted by lollipopcurve

This makes no sense. Frazier has been moved to 2B -- he's not being considered as a possibility in LF for the Reds next year. Cozart has faded in the 2nd half. He should not be considered a possibility for SS in Cincy next year.

This issue is getting way more play than it deserves, and leaving Frazier and Cozart in AA now will have zero impact on their careers.

I agree. To me this is simply rewarding a young player for succeeding. I also wonder if defense has anything to do with this. For a couple years Francisco has been thought of as one of the better defensive 3B in his league. This year he's been awful and some are pointing toward the infield at Carolina. Maybe the Reds want to get a read on him on a different field to see if he comes back in 2010 as a 3B or whether a position switch is in order. Left handed hitting 3B can be pretty valuable, especially when the starter on the big league team is a righty with a history of missing a lot of games. If the Reds keep Francisco around (though he'd be in my package with Stubbs and Maloney to try and get some major league talent), I hope he can stay at 3B.

[corkedbat]

I think it makes sense considering his spot on the 40-man. I don't see them adding any of the non-40 to the roter until after the season (although ihey could surprise me with Stubbs).

I thought they might accelerate JF since his clock is ticking. His pitch recognition doesn't actually concern me as much anymore as doeshis defense.

[LoganBuck]

During the pregame tonight, Marty asked Dusty about this. Dusty dropped several platitudes about how great Juan Francisco is, about being a great bad ball hitter, how he thinks he is the next Pedro Sandavol (sp), etc. Then he mentioned that he has had some issues on defense, and added that they will be working him in the outfield to maximize his great arm. The plot thickens.

[corkedbat]

Originally Posted by LoganBuck

During the pregame tonight, Marty asked Dusty about this. Dusty dropped several platitudes about how great Juan Francisco is, about being a great bad ball hitter, how he thinks he is the next Pedro Sandavol (sp), etc. Then he mentioned that he has had some issues on defense, and added that they will be working him in the outfield to maximize his great arm. The plot thickens.

Rolen at third + Francisco's power + 30(+) errors + minimum contract = Your 2010 LFer?

Francisco/Balentine platoon maybe?

[GIDP]

Dusty probably remembers Francisco hitting that big homer in the spring so he assumes that Juan is now the best player in the world.

[dougdirt]

Originally Posted by LoganBuck

During the pregame tonight, Marty asked Dusty about this. Dusty dropped several platitudes about how great Juan Francisco is, about being a great bad ball hitter, how he thinks he is the next Pedro Sandavol (sp), etc. Then he mentioned that he has had some issues on defense, and added that they will be working him in the outfield to maximize his great arm. The plot thickens.

Sure, if only he could make contact at the same rate as Pablo Sandoval, then maybe it would make sense. Sandoval's strikeout rates were 10-13% his minor league career. Francisco has been between 18 and 28% (19.6 this year).

[LoganBuck]

Originally Posted by dougdirt

Sure, if only he could make contact at the same rate as Pablo Sandoval, then maybe it would make sense. Sandoval's strikeout rates were 10-13% his minor league career. Francisco has been between 18 and 28% (19.6 this year).

He also compared him to a young Vlad Guerrero if you want to believe that one. I think I threw up.

[camisadelgolf]

Originally Posted by LoganBuck

He also compared him to a young Vlad Guerrero if you want to believe that one. I think I threw up.

I don't think anyone would have travel believing that one.

Regarding Doug's comment about Drew Stubbs, I agree completely about his OPS not being relevant because A.) his defense is so superb, and B.) when he's on base, his speed is enough to make a big difference.

But back to the peripherals thing, there's a reason they're called 'peripherals'. Adam Dunn's peripherals suggest he should be an elite player, but his defense (not a peripheral, am I right?) is so bad that it brings his value down significantly.

Wow, I mentioned Stubbs and Dunn in the same thread about Juan Francisco. I hope this thread survives . . .

[GIDP]

I dont know why Dusty tries to seek out the Vlads instead of going with the Utleys.

[RedsUp]

According to MILB' s league transactions : Francisco is back with the Mudcats.